General Discussion

General DiscussionWhen to back off midlane

When to back off midlane in General Discussion
ETd

    First off, I'll start with F*** SEA Ranked so much. Especially in the 2K-3K region. The true meaning of MMR hell. The toxicity, the lack of game knowledge, everything, is infuriating. And I'm one of them. 3.1 down to 2.85 in 3 days.

    Now, my past few matches, I've been playing mostly mid-lane(except my most recent SF game, I was offlane, go figure, SEA MMR). I'm not the best midlaner, of course, but I can do very well for myself in most 1v1s. In fact, my most recent Alch game, I was crushing the mid Tinker. Until the ganks came in. That's how most of it happens; I'm crushing the midlane, but then I get ganked without tp support(expected, 2k SEA ofc), without missing call, or anything.
    Now, to get to the question, with those factors in mind(no vision, no missing calls, no TP help), how do I know when to back off midlane, when winning the lane? Do i just gotta develop that game sense?

    Héḱmō

      stop being a whiney and toxic kid.

      if you were winning the lane as you say, buying a ward for 65 gold wont hurt you.

      Kotato

        now only 60 btw

        Cheap Laugh Guy

          Do mids really need the missing calls when they can just watch the map? I tried mid sometimes and concentrated a lot on laning and true I would really need missing calls. But then spamming missing! missing! everytime an enemy goes into fog is quite trivial.

          The ward is 60 gold now btw ah he said it

          이 코멘트는 수정되었습니다
          Autumnus

            Now, to get to the question, with those factors in mind(no vision, no missing calls, no TP help), how do I know when to back off midlane, when winning the lane? Do i just gotta develop that game sense?

            how about buying raindrop or ward or even a sent and constantly look at the map?

            mr. rabbit

              first off ill start by saying fuck you. you dont really want to know this stuff ur asking; u just want to whine about how shitty ur teammates are and how theres nothing u can do about it. Oh how COME ONLY UR TEAM IS BAD WHILE THE ENEMY PLAYS LIKE SOME GUYS MADE TO COMPETE THE INTERNATIONAL?!??! matchmaking is indeed beyond the workings of the human brain

              if ur winning the midlane just like u said on a hero like sf u literally cant lose the game if u know how to snowball ur lead like a proper human being

              ganks shouldnt rly be a problem when ur alch, u just farm the camps after shoving lane to tower until u get rad armlet bot

              from what u said this is what u need:
              - no vision, buy ur own ward.
              - no miss call? oh whats this thing called the minimap?!?!
              -no tp help same as above. predict when ganks are coming and react accordingly

              Autumnus

                perhaps he auto attacks creeps and the lane gets pushed and gets far from his tower thats why he gets ganked a lot, if the enemy has an invisible ganker like bh, buying 1 sentry ward is good enough, lul, dont blame your supports, in some of my matches, i even upgrade the courier and buy sod if i see my supports struggling to get boots or raindrop.

                이 코멘트는 수정되었습니다
                mr. rabbit

                  theres a lot of stuff that you need to improve on but first is your attitude towards the game

                  UnSure

                    Buy your own wards
                    If enemy supports/roamers are miss hug tower
                    Ifor you win mid push your advantage into other lanes.
                    Get objectives after kills.

                    You have a 58% ranked win rate
                    50.7% in last month.
                    I say you hit the mmr where your skill are at and the games become a little harder.

                    You can't change who you get qued with but there are millions of things you can change about your own play so work of getting better as a player because its the only thing you got control over.

                    Toxic attitude and blaming others doesn't help anyone ever in anything

                    이 코멘트는 수정되었습니다
                    Mlem

                      u suck

                      HBNN

                        Have you tried destroying enemy ancient analyzing high MMR midlaner replay?

                        Autumnus

                          Have you tried destroying enemy ancient analyzing high MMR midlaner replay?

                          HE does not even know his own mistakes, and thinks that his teammates are at fault every time he gets ganked,i think it would be better if he analyze first his mistakes then watch high mmr gameplay.

                          HBNN

                            If he analyze high mmr replay and managed to get something good out of it then that's good for him BUT if he copy what those player are doing mindlessly and end up fucking himself over even more then...Yare yare daze.

                            Autumnus

                              If he analyze high mmr replay and managed to get something good out of it then that's good for him BUT if he copy what those player are doing mindlessly and end up fucking himself over even more then...Yare yare daze.

                              true

                              jo~

                                I'm crushing the midlane, but then I get ganked without tp support(expected, 2k SEA ofc), without missing call, or anything.

                                agreed, this is the reason i refuse to play core roles in low avg games. if supports arent ready to tp in <2sec minimum of you getting ganked its reasonable to destroy your items

                                Jacked

                                  when to back off?
                                  when their supports are missing. no need to have ppl call missing for you. thats the biggest sign of a noob

                                  UnSure

                                    How did you plan on man fighting a ls and pa with only one amor item as alc?

                                    How did you plan on doing anything in a team fight without bkb vs a lion and cm?

                                    ETd

                                      Hmmm thanks for the positive, constructive criticism comments! kappa

                                      But yeah, you're all right. I should really watch the minimap more. I should be willing to get my own wards. All of that. I guess I focus too much on the last hit/deny and harass aspect of midlane. I can't recall the last time I ganked before 10 minutes when I played midlane, the extra creep is just too enticing now.

                                      While I was typing my original post, I was in strategy time for a game(here is dotabuff breakdown https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3279465839 ) . I got ganked thrice in the midlane by the CM. No missing calls, like what I was saying here, but she was in and out of bot lane, I assume was taking the secondary Dire jungle. In that point, if it's a support who can jungle, like CM, how to read the situation then? Just give up midlane until the support shows up again? (Keep in mind, SEA 2-3k, there is always a jungling LC/BS/Lifestealer, so no way I retreat there)

                                      It's really me. My fault. I'm too used to fighting pure 1v1 mids. Just thinking about outlaning the enemy mid by out-LHing and denying, and harassing. I have the idea of keeping the wave equal, not perfect but doing my best to get there. But I'm clueless on factoring in help from supports. Reaching the ranks where support ganks become common, but tp rotations are still not, I'm getting screwed over.

                                      ETd

                                        I like how many of the more agitated comments are coming from support mains, like @You're fucking NUTS!, @Best Gril and @Never give up!!
                                        I feel you guys also, I was maining support for a little while, I got fed up with the idiocies of core players and went back to core role(just like 95% of SEA's 3k and under community). Now I'm part of the problem. haha

                                        Chiwa

                                          hahaha

                                          Rocket

                                            I always ping missing. Otherwise when the mid dies they blame their dumbness on me.

                                            Zeal

                                              Once your winning mid backing off near your tower might just help you rather than trying to fight him under his tower

                                              ETd

                                                BTW @Jacked congrats on beating me to High Skill games haha
                                                I was already 3.1(High Skill games are 3.2 average I think?), I'm 2.85 right now, lost 300 MMR since Sunday. I'm bad lmao xD

                                                ETd

                                                  Cursed IndianGamers.in you think I do that? Maybe on occasion, but for the most part I stay on my side of the river. That's why I made this forum post; I'm not even playing that aggressively/dangerously, but I'm still being ganked, and I feel that I can avoid these ganks if I know they're coming, but like I said, no vision, no calls. If I was on their side of the river when I get ganked, I wouldn't have made this post, because I already know it's on my stupidity. But do I literally have to retreat to tier 2 to avoid a gank when supports go missing?

                                                  mr. rabbit

                                                    if u feel like ur getting ganked 9999 times in the first 10 mins just jungle

                                                    doesnt matter if u have an LC jungle or something, just jungle because U NEED GOLD

                                                    mr. rabbit

                                                      its much better than not doing anything

                                                      Autumnus

                                                        Holy sh*t, getting ganked by cm? She is extremely slow and is easier to escape from, getting ganked by pudge, riki, earth spirit are a lot more difficult to escape from

                                                        Jacked

                                                          Well if u are getting Dove under tower then I wouldn't say it's your fault entirely. Just good support play from the enemy. Also get seriously get your own wards if u think vision is a problem. Also, crystal maiden is so damn slow now. I suspect u are just not paying attention.

                                                          At some point if you are expecting a rotation ur positioning is impt. Be ready to juke into the trees. Don't just stand in plain vision. Sometimes jus staying off the minimAp discourages ganks. Part of getting good game sense is looking at how other lanes are doing and seeing if the supports are likely to come gank u or not.

                                                          If u r prepared it's less likely to succeed. But u r not prepared.

                                                          Decarabia

                                                            Maybe try to see it from support perspective especially in our bracket. First of all, support there are expected to do many things: place ward, roaming, pull aggro, stack, pull creep, ganking, basically has to cover all lanes by him alone. There are times we cant back you up cos we need to support the other lane. There are times when we back up our mid, ganking them succesfully but my carry in safelane dies in that time.
                                                            Dota is 5-man team game, there are roles, yet we supp in low MMR has to fulfill 2 role (4-5) in the same time, with minimum gold (often we dont get to grab the bounty and last hit the ranged creep due to pinging of the noisy carry).
                                                            Try to play supp sometimes, u will see how hard it is has to initiate, roaming and supporting all alone, and let the carry get all the glory

                                                            cancer

                                                              Read the map next time

                                                              dead

                                                                noob

                                                                ETd

                                                                  @Decarabia I was support maining a while back, so I know exactly what you mean. I got frustrated with the incompetence of my core players. Funny how I'm on the other side now.
                                                                  BTW, CM was just the most recent example, but I also do experience the ganks from scarier supports like Pudge, Riki, ES, etc. And they use smoke. So yeah. Develop the gamesense and map awareness to back off, basically, what you've all been telling me. Got it, thanks :)

                                                                  evy

                                                                    Read map

                                                                    Chiwa

                                                                      last hit the ranged creep due to pinging of the noisy carry).


                                                                      hahaHAHA

                                                                      evy

                                                                        last hit the ranged creep due to pinging of the noisy carry).

                                                                        Maybe you should be wondering why are you standing next to your carry in the first place

                                                                        Chiwa

                                                                          5uPP0rt n33d g0lD t0 buY waRD5 too !! 5har3 5Um la5t h1t br0!!

                                                                          evy

                                                                            Says the guy who leaves my void to 1v4 lane 🤔

                                                                            Chiwa

                                                                              🙊🙊🙊🙊🙊🙊

                                                                              one syllable anglo-saxon

                                                                                without missing call, or anything.

                                                                                what the fcuk its not 2014
                                                                                pudge report wherre ss mid??!?!

                                                                                oof

                                                                                  seeing that your mid is being ganked and actually being able to do something about it is 2 very different things.

                                                                                  like if you know that 2 gankers are camping your lane, you just go jungle and let your tower die at 5 mins?

                                                                                  mr. rabbit

                                                                                    @manslaughter

                                                                                    yes

                                                                                    sooner or later that tower is gonna go down anyway. if 2 gankers are camping u then it becomes a 3v1

                                                                                    lane just becomes unsalvageable at this point and its much better to give up the tower for some jungle farm than to give up both by standing under ur tower wondering if theres still something u can do

                                                                                    G-zooz

                                                                                      This is the 19372837th thread about "my teammates holding me back"

                                                                                      G-zooz
                                                                                        이 댓글은 삭제되었습니다.
                                                                                        ETd

                                                                                          Socrates, where in my original forum post did I say anything about my teammates holding me down? I know that in ranked, anything goes in terms of quality of teammates. Until they prove otherwise, I don't want to rely on them. I want to improve myself. That's why I asked for help on developing the awareness and knowledge when to back off. For me, getting supports(if there are any to begin with) to ward and getting rotations, both offensive and defensive, are pleasant surprises; otherwise, don't count on it.

                                                                                          G-zooz

                                                                                            "I'm crushing the midlane, but then I get ganked without tp support(expected, 2k SEA ofc), without missing call, or anything. "

                                                                                            Youre indirectly saying that your teammate is holding you back

                                                                                            Sans

                                                                                              just dont die ok?

                                                                                              casual gamer

                                                                                                missing call isnt a real thing lmao

                                                                                                Cursed

                                                                                                  Git gud, watch map. buy regen items, get ur supp to plant ward at river and get ur brain to react faster when you actually got ganked.