General DiscussionDoes tinker need a nerf

"Int heroes shouldnt be able to solo kill your carry"

...

Rofl no need to touch Tinker brought up slightly after being nerfed to shit.

Why shouldnt a int-carry (which Tinker, Invoker,... are) not be able to kill an agi-carry? There is a world outside right clicks in Dota you know?

Having one of your teams get Lotus Orb makes his permasheeping crap harder.

@tilt spoken like a true invoker picker

"Int heroes shouldnt be able to solo kill your carry"

Why?

so you mean the guy who was killing people the entire game with his nukes should also be able to outcarry the guy who last hit creeps for 40 min while his team 4v5s the team and for what? to be killed by invoker with alacrity and cold snap? late game is for right clickers it has always been that way.

i meant late game they shouldnt be able to fight and kill a six slotted carry

Why shouldn't they? I think it's only fair that you get a chance to outplay a right click carry with a little bit extra APMs even into late game.

"so you mean the guy who was killing people the entire game with his nukes should also be able to outcarry the guy who last hit creeps for 40 min while his team 4v5s the team..."

...you just wrote a good argument against having right clickers in your team.

i dont know how you people can actually cry about heroes like tb and slark and then turn a blind eye towards invoker/tinker who are the real OP heroes of this game.

i don't know what icefrog did to him but he's suddenly in every other game and wrecks everything

is travels blink lens agh bloodstone hex the new memebuild?

yeah at least nerf rearm like make for it cooldown

It doesn't feel as bad to lose against heroes who are active and fighting during the whole game than to do so against a hero who's only been hitting creeps and whose later contribution to a fight consists only of right clicking people after they were disabled by someone else.

I mean, that's one of the reasons why 6.83 patch was considered to be one othe lowest points in dota's history.

I literally called this day one, and most people said " nah, he's still trash, takes farm from carrys, and requires a good non disrupted early game to secure travels or he's shit. "

No, he doesn't need a nerf, the other mids (especially melee mid heroes) just need more buffs, mid heroes are so underwhelming now, it's the only reason he's strong right now. I believe Wind Ranger and TA are next in line to be meta if this nerf trend keeps up, watch and see. (assuming they get no nerfs this patch, which they won't)

Next patch you will be complaining about PSI blades being super cheap, and wanting them to take away its pure damage, or nerfing refraction to have one less instance, even though it's been the same for ages, nothing changed. rofl

IceFrog will never learn, it's about making all the heroes feel strong, and when heroes are strong, they ARE VERY FUN (I don't know why i think of Storm) but when more than half the cast feels weak and useless, why should someone want to play them? More buffs, less nerfs IceFrog.

Same reason 6.84 was so fun, all the mids were amazingly strong, not just Leshrac, many options to choose from. (Storm, Lina, Shadow Fiend, Queen, TA, Windranger)

To counter tinker you need a good mid player and that's about it. Tinker loses to most heroes in the mid. If you really want to counter him pick beastmaster, then you can gank him at any point in the game. Tinker isn't very good, which you can see by him having less than 50% win rate even at 5k+ mmr he gets countered by any targeted stun or vision or aoe blink cancels

Mid heroes are NOT underwhelming now. They are finally balanced (well invoker still have slightly too much, but nothing worth a nerf compare to a few other i will list later)

There's void and doom at joke level which should be nerfed asap. (should we add ebola at this list aswell?)

Then you have some heroes, that are a bit too strong ( like slark -need nerf since the ult remake, he was outshadowed by TONS of op heroes, mainly middle-, oracle (well he is almost on bullshit level himself), lion, phoenix, beast, (sven ? very slight one if one is needed)).

What you cann't deny is Isolated Lamentation raised an issue we have since the end of ti2. Right click carry getted fucked at all stage of the game (it's normal for them to be totally fucked at early game, eventually even in mid game, but it's not normal to be fucked super hard in lategame aswell).
The only "solution" we ever had for them was to give them too much power early game, instead of buffing their late game (see sniper/troll era).

On the other hand, due to various item, amount of gold given just for standin without diing made true late game heroes not even able to shine in late game, while some mid game heroes went able to snowball out of control and rape them like np in late game. It's just not normal for a hero to be stronger than a lategame carry at every single stage of the game.
Having a hero stronger early game, and late game (like ember) is fine, cause you have a window in between in which it is weak. But having heroes stronger at early, mid and late game is stupid.
(which isn't a problem of tinker, and as far as i know about this patch, isn't a problem about any heroes right now)

The only problem we have right now, is right click carry (like troll) being weaker than almost all other carry at (almost?) every stage of the game.

well that could be fixed if only bkb could be refreshed to 10 sec like before since the int heroes arent as weak as before as we can clearly see.

just delete this hero, all he do is annoy everyone

its funny how all the people here that are supporting int carries over agi carries have their best heroes as either tinker or invoker.

I've supported as Skywrath and destroied an agi carry like slark/pa multiple times. Does that trigger you, op?

also they could make invoker's disarm purgable, 6.5 seconds is a long time to disarm someone while you freely right click away with alacrity and forge spirits, and thats assuming the poor agi hero survived your refresher combo. if invoker's disarm was purgable it could make halberd more viable.

not really since skywrath mage isnt really all that strong, he is squishy as fuck and even with items he cant really outcarry a farmed slark or pa that was smart.

so does anyone have any other opinion on changes which could make the late game more favourable to agi hard carries?

Invoker disarm purgeable Sounds nice. Tinker nerf: Laser magic dmg and mach physikal. Thx icefrog

"Carry" is a hero with highest farm priority. Agi, str or int - doesn't matter.

yes but "hard carry" is a hero who is supposed to be stronger than other carries late game and as far as i know no hard carry in the game is better in late game than invoker/tinker

i dont even know if the guy with the spongebob picture was trying to be sarcastic or if he was being serious.

tinker<lifestealer

ethereal blade on himself, rearm, repeat till ls rage goes on cd and then proceed to rape his ass with hex.

also lifestealer is easily kited especially with high mobility heroes like tinker,voker.

Ever heard of counter picking? Like CK, Pudge, Weaver, Void, Clinkz, AM, etc etc etc to counter those heroes you mentioned?

LOL another tinker and invoker spammer, amazing. Its not about counter picking, the topic is that tinker and invoker's late game is too strong atm, and none of those heroes that you mentioned can survive tinker's hex combo if his team is any decent, nor can they survive invoker's refresher combo into ice wall, alacrity, forge spirits, and cold snap.

Yeah, but dota is a team game. You're talking about a 1 v 1 scenario lol

Nope, game on 2 patchs ago http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2203699583 , wrecked everyone, but we lost because of bkb, and no wards from cm, i did more of a fight build, could erase 2-3 people alone in team fights.
If you dont like int carries, buy a bkb, if he goes etheral, use a abyssal, or even a euls from a sup.

use abyssal and he uses ethereal again due to rearm, bkb doesnt counter him cause its only five seconds late game while ethereal blade once on self is 4 seconds, do the math.

in that game you mentioned you dont even have hex or ethereal blade for that matter

you have dagon 4 while the enemy naix is six slotted, ofcourse you lost, you are shit at this hero

if you have abyssal, there is chance that a high atack speed carry to bash the enemy in mid rearm, he uses etheral, dagon and lazer you, you probably have a mkb, he starts to rearm 2.5 secs , you abyssal him, 2 secs from abyssal, his etheral is now gone, you have 2 bashes, a am can perma bash him and burn the mana, a pa can kill him really fast. Tinker is all a question of timing, if he fucks up he is dead, if you fuck up, you can still run since you are probably tankier than him, 4th gane with tinker retard.

i dont get it, how exactly are you going to bash him if he is already in ethereal form, and all that depending on just luck rofl, he wont die that fast you know, its VERRRY diffcult to fuck up as tinker since all he needs to do is blink and hex and then nuke you till you die. You probably wont even get a chance to use your bkb, also since you're a normal skill player you think a pa can kill a tinker in late game lol. Pa is one of the squishiest carries in the late game herself. Tinker will need at most 2 hexes to kill her if his team hasnt killed her already.

Also since you only play normal skill, you probably dont even get decent tinkers in your bracket.

I like you, OP.
lol
I'm going to keep reading this thread

A Tinker counter would be silences and nukes though.

OMG guys i'm not asking for a counter to tinker. I'm just saying tinker shouldnt be able to outcarry the "3 star carries" of this game.

Silence< Euls+Blink = prepare your anus.

"Int heroes like invoker and tinker shouldnt be able to solo kill your carry atleast."

there are also int carries you know besides the ones in your hero pool with your logic you should also nerf: necro, od, silencer, furion, windranger, stor... actually u r nothing but a troll so I won't feed u much can you keep playing ur terrorblade, also you dont get decent tinker or invoker players as well since u are somewhere between 3.5k and 4k so the normal skill bracket player is right.

"use abyssal and he uses ethereal again due to rearm, bkb doesnt counter him cause its only five seconds late game while ethereal blade once on self is 4 seconds, do the math. "

huehuehue that made my day, you are thinking too much give urself a break. Have you ever heard of stun, silence, hex, diffusial, or basically anything. Also you can start using google, laser blind duration is 4.5 sec.

I can just imagine how playing with you in a team looks like

Insta mark safe lane - ME CARRY FACKING RETARDS PICK SUPPORTS - "every time I don't play carry people cant carry me" - NICE FEED MID REPORTED - I GO AFK - 1/10 of your games are abandons huehuehue

Here we go. Just what I was waiting for. It's good that you stated that you'll run away like a scared little girl before I take my pants off and go to town on your salty little ass. First off, if you are not handicapped with a mental condition, I'm sure you read above that matrice agrees with my 'logic'. No, I'm not a troll. I don't even have to check your profile to know that you spam tinker, but let's see tho, oh look, 58 % winrate as tinker and this guy still couldn't understand what the fuck is being discussed here. I'll say it again just cuz I'm nicer to people like you, people who need a little help to find out what's going on. The topic is '' INT heroes shit on HARD CARRIES even in LATE GAME, you know the ones with the 3 stars that need a load of farm to even BEGIN to do shit in the late game all the while trying to avoid dying to said INT heroes EARLY game.'' I don't even know why I took you seriously in the first place when you fucking placed NECRO in the same category as invoker/ tinker.

Tinker has always been able to kill carries late game, I don't see what's so different now to you people. He has an ability that resets the cool down of his abilities AND items, what did you expect? Sheep stick, Eblade, Dagon 5, extremely expensive items. They'd have to rework him if they ever wanted to fulfill your request.

ROFL, u r so bad, go play ur 3k mmr games necro is far worse than tinker right now in ur bracket but ur are lucky they dont know how to play both of em. Go play ur 47% winrate am ricardo and dont bother me with ur 3k mmr problems.

MY 47% AM CANT CARRY VS TINKER AND INVOKER BECAUSE I ALWAYS FIRST PICK AND GO BF ABYSSAL BUTTER MANTA AND I DONT WANT TO BOTHER COUNTERING HIM PLS NERF THESE HEROES

also my team always suck :(((

better cry in forum for no reason

invoker was even nerfed the last patch I dont like him as well but thats dota nobody s asking u. I dont spam tinker u gotta be retarded or something I play him once per 20 games its not like ur amazing most played heroes. Also ye, you are not a troll you are just rly bad at this game. And hard carries don't have to be agi, its been that way since 2004 but ofc, you are better than me - you play dota since 2014, you have 5k games in 2 years and still stuck in 3k, gratz.

oh let me guess your next post

BabyRage I m stuck in 3k because there is always invoker or tinker on the enemy team BabyRage

Also yea, there are a lot of underpowered agi heroes (even tho am is not 1 of em) and I love most of em, I agree, but it's your logic which is stupid "ints cant kill agi heroes its against the rules", like wtf

if tinker too OP, ppl would spam him every game like invo, od, and spec on the last patch.