General Discussion

General DiscussionRadiant vs Dire

Radiant vs Dire in General Discussion
Indogoo

    We had this debate numerous times before. One of the most intriguing features of the game we all came to love so much is the impeccable balance in almost every respect imaginable. I say ALMOST because perfection is just an illusion and nothing is perfect. Lets have a look.

    D2CL2 Finals: Navi vs Alliance.

    Game 1: Winner DIRE

    Game 2: Winner Radiant
    Game 3: Winner Radiant
    Game 4: Winner Radiant
    Game 5: Winner Radiant

    Startling isn't it. In high level games where skills are almost equal, does winning eventually come down to a matter of luck? In fact in the last 500 pro games (http://www.datdota.com/matches.php), the radiant side won 258 out of 500 games.. thats 51.6% of the games. In an interview Puppey himself said that he prefers the radiant to the dire side. The stats say that the map is not PERFECTLY balanced... Or is it?

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    Totentanz to The King: M ...

      Of course it's not perfectly balanced. But why Radiant has more winrate is probably because of the hardlane pull and easy lane chain pulls being easier and more efficient. Also mid is way closer to ancients unlike dire.

      Zahard

        nerf radiant

        Greatlubu

          Report Radiant for Modding.

          Arcanine ))

            258 out of 500 ... Different is 16 games. I think that its not bad.

            Mа§таÐøøм

              @sam well, radiant does have the better pull spots, but the Dire offlane can stack ancients as well as the radiant mid lane, and the dire can more easily take roshan than the radiant can. As well as that, I think the dire jungle is better personally. But radiant does have the better mid lane in my opinon.

              eXcel

                Ive been doing lvl 1 rosh in all my recent dire games and ive won them all

                WGACA

                  ^
                  you can do it easily on radiant as well.

                  Vaikiss`742.

                    its much more complicated for radiant

                    Yoichi Isagi | Blue Lock

                      Yea that medium camp in the middle lane just wrong for radiant. Then again Dire has roshan advantage as well as easier offlane ancient stqacking. Not sure if they changed the map yet from 1-2 years ago when that guy did a map timing of how radiant has advantage going out from mid lane to gank and runes etc...I think they fixed it but would be kinda mad if radiant still have 2-10 seconds walking advantage.

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                      Seoulmate

                        Radiant win the early game because of all their small advantages like the jungle for the mid player.
                        But in the end the rosh pit gives the Dire the upper hand, since all the Radiant's advantages are worthless

                        efix

                          dire has roshan entrance while radiant got easier pulls as offlane/chain pulls/ancients.

                          Jʌy Δshʙoʁnɘ

                            I think dire has better pulls. You have x2 camps to choose from. It may be a tad harder to defend, but I like dire pull areas.

                            Luxon

                              There was an article proving left-bottom side advantage over top-right side in all MOBA games. Even in one game where map was designed to have perfect symmetry the left side had higher average win-rate because of the camera angle.

                              TronCat

                                it's known that radiant have advantage until 30min over dire.
                                and dire have slight advantage from 30min and onward.

                                just google it and there is lot of info.

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                                Trodlabundin

                                  I love Radiant more cause everything looks better + the big part, Camera angle.
                                  Always lose as Dire. :|

                                  -The good ones always win.

                                  Stinkoman

                                    Camera angle is the deciding factor for me.

                                    Dire Wolf

                                      I wonder if it would be too technically difficult or confusing to allow you to rotate the map for your own perspective only. That'd be pretty sweet.

                                      Stinkoman

                                        @Mark

                                        When I played Dota 2 for the first time, I actually looked through menu options to change this. I honestly thought they could enable this pretty easily. I was pretty disappointed to find out otherwise.

                                        Polkadot Piranha

                                          I don't see an issue with the imbalance itself - chess famously has the example of white having a higher win percentage than black.

                                          One could however change the way tournaments work. Possibly considering a Bo2 format with a new Bo2 if the first two in a draw instead of a Bo3 for instance.

                                          ICE SKULL

                                            radiant is better because you can def with every rax down (cant do this on dire)
                                            dire is better because you are close to rosh

                                            Dire Wolf

                                              I don't understand, why can radiant defend better with all rax down?

                                              One other reason I really prefer to be on dire side late game, the radiant base is easier to ward both sides. You ward the obvious hill by the large campe with that rune inscribed on it (those are basically "WARD HERE" signs), but you can also ward the little ridge on the left side and have equal vision over there. So you can easily see if the enemy is rotation or pushing out regardless of where your creeps are.

                                              Dire side has similar symmetry but there's all those trees on their right side so you can't stick a ward in there. Maybe there's another spot I'm not aware of but vision is pretty obstructed there.