General DiscussionSpectre talk. Items and skill builds

awful hero

Lategame Radiance, no. A late radiance because you have absolutely no farm, yes.

If no late radiance, Manta. Manta gives u potentional to kill anyone that is alone.
Dififusal helps with not just getting kited.

Rape them.

@DD
I was talking about pushing potential. Spectre has no AoE. And it's kind of hard to push a lane.

Spectre isn't built for pushing lane. She is built for kill, his desolate really hurts and dispersion make she really hard to shut down. Also her dagger is can be useful for chasing or escape situation

And there is goes again... i'll start it!!!!!

Vanguard is a good item on spec!

Aren't drums better?

yay again this thread !

Oh well lets do this again, i think vanguard is better than drums on spectre

Spectre should be played by Jimmy.

I second Blunt.

Vanguard is a good item on spec!

Just go phase drums and keep telling your team when you have your ult . you can always win fights with a good timing with your ult. for example wait for their big spells to be used before going in . Radiance before <30 mins is always ok . heart is the best item to get next . spec doesn't need a lot of damage until very very late. remember spectre is good because she can always join fight wherever she is . you can do a little split push but i think the best item build for her is Phase into drums , Radiance > heart > diffusal blade ( if u need chasing power ) / butterfly / manta

Vanguard bad, I can tell..
oh wait :'D

Recently I've been experimenting with a phase -> headdress (yes folks, you heard it here 1st !!) -> diffusal + vit booster then trying to go for radiance. Seems to be pretty safe and has farming potential, given you can have all those before the 30 min mark (25 min actually).

Ok, I'll bite. What's the reasoning behind headdress?

^^ Cheap regen, something you can make out of that iron branch and is also an aura. Helps your lane mate(s)

new meta - headress spectre

i guess batman better get a batbicycle, because its cheap

If you go headress you better finish mek, not a casual headress. Mek isn't terribly bad on spectre either, as it makes him tanky and gives some passive regen to actually stay in lane/jungle without having to go base. Very much like vanguard.

HER.

If you have good lane support you won't need vanguard. If you have shit lane support you will. Because yeah, spectre has no sustain but you can just last hit and tp back to base after haunting into a team fight. I do not like rushing radiance unless your farm is completely unmolested and you go like brown boots -> radiance. But I usually like diffusal, then radiance sometimes because diffusal builds easily enough, adding 10 agi is a pretty decent boost to your damage. If you can get boots and diffusal around 16 mins or so you can still get radiance online under 30 minutes and be a monster. Or if farm isn't going well enough go manta and become a pickoff threat with ult, posses one, pop manta, win.

Skadi is a sick item on spec too but I find diffusal more useful is probably 75% of my games. You can still get a heart to be beefy.

I think, Satanic is great on Spectre. Too much synergy to miss.

@DD: True, meka is like a vanguard (but mostly for ranged heroes since the damage block from vanguard is weak on ranged). Meka could be done on a spec if the other supports are just poor or are focusing on spec getting all the farm. Meka is not just a support item.

Also, as early game item, if you having a heavy ganking lineup, you can go for an urn. Those haunt ganks really pay off.

how is spectre supposed to sustain a mek...the guys manapool is ultra shit. he basically cant use his escape/chase (dagger) for half the game or needs arcanes. both options sound terrible.

not to mention vanguard is way better on spec than it is on most heroes due to its interaction with dispersion that basically makes him invulnerable to right clicks for the first 20 minutes.

also vanguard provides a ton of survivability with great buildup so you are really hard to gank. pretty big.

I'm no pro, but here are my thoughts.

I like vanguard on Spectre because it is the only early item on spec you get that gives regen. The damage block and hp pool increase synergize well with dispersion.

Basically, if you're against physical damage heroes in lane who like to harass, vanguard makes them deal almost nothing to you, so you can stay in lane and get last hits. Creeps can barely touch you, so grabbing a few jungle creeps when lane is pushed doesn't take half your hp pool.

The downside to vanguard is getting it means you need something else (desolate is nice, but not always enough) to matter in fights.

If you aren't getting harassed or you have a support that can keep your health up, you dont need vanguard and I recommend skipping it. Early radiance is beast.

Mek takes too much mana, there should be a support getting that. Drums are great, but if you need hp regen, they provide basically nothing. If nobody else is getting drums and you aren't getting harassed, drums are a fairly cheap useful item pickup.

I like to max dispersion early if heavy harass, max desolate first if very little harass so your haunt is dangerous.

Let's talk about something else. Manta vs diffusal as a first item. Manta is imo better because of its superior buildup and higher single target damage, while also giving hp ms and a dispel. Diffusal gives higher haunt aoe and chasing, while providing a superior dispel.

I usually go diffusal first, so I don't have another mana-cost ability. That choice is situational. Manta helps with survivability, so I think it's strong choice. If you got radiance, definitely manta is solid.

EDIT: As a first item, like boots-phase-manta versus boots-phase-diffusal?

I'd definitely get diffusal first bc manta costs too much damn mana.

@PLease: You do forget that Spectre has 2 active spells. Haunt, which you rarely use (due to cooldown), and dagger, also use it only for escape/chase. Also meka takes 150 mana (65 you already have from stats it provides) so it's just a 85 mana strain on you.

Phase + meka + diffusal could work quite good in an early fight situation.

The problem I usually see with Vanguard is that's an item that needs to be rushed in order to be as efficient as possible, getting it after 10 mins doesn't do much since by the 20-25 minute it becomes obsolete and takes an extra slot in your inventory. The meka/drum is useful even later in the game and they are not "greedy" pickups since they benefit your team also.

Phase,vanguard,radiance,casual yasha,sell vanguard build hot,finish manta = gg

Quick Vanguard+Radiance is pretty much a gg. Illusion + burn dmg is usually too much to handle for oposite team, and i'm not even talking about right click dmg afterwards. Just say to your team clearly they need to support you in lane, so you dont end up crying solo vs ranged dual lane and be totally useless whole game.

Spectre has fantastic winrates with all levels of Dagon. Perhaps dagon spec is worth trying out.

phase radi refresher in ~ 60% of the situations is probably your best bet.

@PLease13 hours ago
"how is spectre supposed to sustain a mek...the guys manapool is ultra shit. he basically cant use his escape/chase (dagger) for half the game or needs arcanes. both options sound terrible"

People who builds mek usually gets drums too to sustain the mana.

- I know it's a girl, but who cares? Him, her, it, what thefuck. Looks like a strong fuckin monster

@Skolder:
"True, meka is like a vanguard (but mostly for ranged heroes since the damage block from vanguard is weak on ranged"

No that's bullshit. Ranged or Melee doesnt matter.

force staff->atos

I'd go diffusal before manta. Two reasons. One is for pickoffs, if you haunt into a pickoff but the guy is by some creeps or whatever and dispersion won't activate then diffusal will still let you kill him fast. Two, the purge is really awesome for chasing kills. Haunt into a teamfight, one guy is escape, purge him.

tbh i never really liked the idea of going full drums, getting a bracer is usually more than enough since it gives you all the survivability you need, the auras are nice and all but not worth an extra 1100 gold (you get a bit more stats and damage but still when you add alll that up its not worth it)

and this idea that you should be getting drums AND mek is completely senseless. remember, mek is being discussed here as an option to replace VANGUARD, which means you're basically suggesting going drums and vanguard (obviously this is a bit of a stretch but if you can see the cost problem here)...drums and mek is basically the cost of a relic, which spectre usually picks up around the 18-20 minute mark, and if you're only able to use a mek that late, why get it at all (your supports and offlane/mid can get it at this timing, saving you 2k gold) because you can only have one mek on a team, and if the timing window is delayed that late (versus a lot of the semicarries/carries that get it, like viper, necro, bristle) then its not nearly as effective (250 hp heal is way more valuable 8 minutes into the game versus 18).

so basically you're crippling any semblance of damage output on a right-click carry hero (this isnt viper, with viper strike and poison, or necro, with pulse and ulti, or bristle, who gets most of his damage out of quills/goo stacks, but a right-click only carry hero) who is only able to use the item with a bunch of wasted tank items (you're going so overkill on the early game pop that you dont do any damage), you cant use the item early (18 minute mark?) which means youre not getting anywhere near the benefits of having it on your safelane farmer, while the enemy carry gets to build whatever the crap he wants in the damage department and let his offlane or 4/mid build it at the same or even a faster clip than you are.

and remember all the while you COULD have just gone for a 2100 vanguard that gives the same or more survivability (even with drums AND mek) due to the interaction with dispersion, instead you're blowing relic-comparable money on items that dont get you anywhere as a carry and benefit your team in the way of an offlane BB getting mek.

and even looking at your own history, you only built one game mek and way more games vanguard. kinda sketchy...

I'm gonna be honest I think Mek is a fucking horrible idea on Spectre.