General Discussion[Discussion] Experimental Viper item build

Boots of travel 1st and you win xD

Phase, drums, aghs, manta -> rest situational.

I think it should work fine, except i wouldnt get euls. Phase-drums-aghs-s&y/manta like Blunt said would be great.

It can work but not needed. He is already a heavy slow based hero, why would you need him to go fast?

I've started getting phase more often on him and I love it. I used to swear by treads for the attack speed but phase lets you kite like a madman with your corresive skin and chase down people for ganks easily.

I also like yasha a lot, easy to build, great stats for viper early, but I wouldn't turn it into sange and yasha. Sange proc is completely wasted on him since you already drop attack speed and move speed. And you won't proc it much using your orb anyway. I wouldn't bother with euls either, but a phase -> drums -> yasha -> aghs build finishing off manta later is quite legit. I usually build aquilla and mek on him for early stats but drums is also good.

phase, mek, agha, heart/bkb

I kinda like butterfly over heart. Depends if you're facing right click or magic dmg only.

Never really thought about just building Yasha but yeah, I guess youre right mark.
I normally build treads>Ring of Aquila>Mek>S&Y>Heart or BKB. Im not that big a fan of Aghs tbh but thats personal, yes its nice having the ult up with such a low CD but the rest of the stats dont do that much for viper and your orb + Nethertoxin is powerful enough just by itself, and the ult cd is quite low already so meh..Rather just build heart for 1k more than aghs and be pretty much unkillable.

Aui:
http://dotabuff.com/players/40547474/items?date=&faction=&hero=viper&lobby_type=&game_mode=&duration=20-&metric=used

FnC:
http://dotabuff.com/players/83741211/items?date=&faction=&hero=viper&lobby_type=&game_mode=&duration=20-&metric=used

If you want semi-carry Viper, you can buy anything.
But if you want hard carry Viper, buy Satanic + Skadi + AC please.

I don't really build aghs for the cd as much as the range. The base range on viper strike kind of sucks, it's less than viper's regular attack. I will actually try to hit people with poison before popping ult if they are running cus the poison is a big movement slow. Aghs let's viper pretty much pick off anyone he wants in any fight. Plus the stats are good, his int pool is pretty bad, he needs hp and agi to do dmg and get tanky. So aghs has a little of everything. The mana cost reduction isn't as good as it looks cus you'll be casting it way more often. Basically just enables you to cast your ult, otherwise the aghs would be kind of worthless.

Anyway, lately I've been ahead early on viper and going phase boots and thus not building yasha. I think yasha works well with treads, get that extra speed, stack IAS. I've been doing, phase, aquila, mek (mek first if I'm getting harassed mid and need regen, aquila if not), point booster into aghs (that point booster makes you pretty tanky, solves your mana problems), butterfly, either the dodge part first or eaglesong if I have tons of gold. Viper is a pretty flexbile hero.

I don't really think ac is that good on him compared to butterfly, it's just much easier to build since a hyperstone is 2k vs 3300 for eaglesong. Comparison:

AC
5250g
55 IAS
15 armor
5 armor reduction on enemy (roughly worth 7% more dmg on a target with 20 armor. It's not really that much of an increase, maybe ~20 dmg?)

Butterfly
6000g
60 IAS
60 dmg
4.2 armor
35% dodge

So ac is 750g less, 11 more armor but way less dmg, slightly less attack speed. Obviously the aura is amazing for your entire team but I'd prefer to let a str hero build it. The agi on butterfly is just too good for agi heroes.

Mark, Nethertoxin is physical damage so the -armor from AC also boosts that too. For the most part it just depends on their lineup though. If they have lots of -armor AC would be a better pickup.

mek + agh = easy games

I played Viper against a TB mid in an AR game recently. That was pretty funny.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/698959821

Why no BKB ?

BKB is situational

And about your agh comments Mark, I guess yeah, I normally have no probs closing down enemies by just orbing them with poison..I dunno, I will try it again a couple of games.

I do like butterfly though. My main problem with viper is that because of your already insane damage output with your poison attack/nethertoxin you tend to get a lot of focus in teamfights, so I do kinda like building my viper somewhat tanky, hence my heart pickup.

The butterfly evasion would kinda solve that too though as well as give some other real nice DPS stats on top of it. Def gonna try building that instead of heart against right-click heavy lineups and see how it goes.

Also, sorry for derailing the thread, this is about racecar Viper and I just don´t have enough experience with it. Seems nice to try but oth I don´t really see the need for it on viper since you have so much innate slows closing down enemies is generally not much of a problem.

Why just don't simply buy dager? Instead of making million of items for move speed, just get that one, awesome .

Viper is extremely flexible, you can go any of these builds and do well. I'm just giving my opinions and what works for me. I'm pretty successful in my bracket with him. Try a few things, find what you like best.