The only real good game are made by almost full 6k+, but since there's not a lot of people that high, we are constantly matches with/against people that are far lower
A lot of these things aren't used vs bad players but the items or heroes are able to take advantage of mistakes much more than others. For instance Riki, it doesn't just work vs bad players just players who aren't willing to dedicate that much attention to you with in turn allows you to snowball.
Shadowblade allows you to find kills on heroes that are not equipped to deal with you...
> The support warding alone
> The carry farming a lane alone
> Junglers etc.
Its not that any of these are bad but the SB while it has been labelled a "noob" item is good at being able to catch people off guard
i would also give honorable mention of having ur passive regen in the middle of a fight using shadow blade, without having to fully retreat out of vision, which lets u nab 1-2 additional kills because people mistakenly think ur gone
i can't position myself to use blink + pounce to save my life so i just use swiftending's build
there's no "right or wrong" build in certain cases; there's a 6k void picker who goes exclusively battlefury in his games. while most people including myself would think mjllonir is the better alternative it's not as if bfury is terrible/not viable (though i heard that guy has a terrible attitude and flames/mutes everyone when the shit hits the fan)
for farming aswell... the speed you got from mjolnir, is also getting some creep less on the lane, or you don't full auto attack, and when you are at your next item, it doesn't matter anymore since you almost no longer hit a creep wave when your own are there
cause crit give WAY more dps, and even in chrono it's better, even considering the bash. In addition outside of chrono that advantage is even more clear, last but not least, crit scale better than mjolnir, and basically almost every dps item scales better than mjolnir.
Daedulus = 330 dps
Daedulus + mask of madness active = 494 dps
Mjollnir = 317 dps
Mjollnir + mask active = 429
Crystalis = 215
Crystalis + mask active = 321
Maelstrom = 245
Maelstromg + mask active = 354
So it looks like you are right, when going mask daedulus is a lot more dps than mjollnir's but I do not know if that calculation considers the proc only hitting one target or hitting multiples. I still feel a quick maelstrom for farming is the way to go but I will probably never finish mjollnir's now, instead go right into crystalis -> daedulus
I don't even know how good that calculator is, I just found it on google so take everything I wrote with a grain of salt! I just like the maths behind dota and for void I think it works fine because you are going to be non stop hitting someone for the duration of a chrono.
Ignoring (a) the proc (hits other targets), (b) active of mjollnir is silly, does that also include time lock bashes? I don't think that anyone underrates buriza on void, but by itself you are a lot more reliant on your ultimate than an alternative item. The other side of this is that MoM + Maelstrom increases your farm rate by heaps.
Looking at things from a purely DPS (even worse when you ignore a lot of the DPS) perspective is retarded, the game is not that simple.
I believe that calculator accounts for everything (bashes, the procs) cus all it has to do is calc your attack speed and proc chance. But I don't think it calculates mjollnir hitting all 5 to 8 targets or however many it can hit with lightning, and those values are also before armor reductions which doesn't matter much on creeps since they have very little armor. For example I plugged a deso in and it was less dps than a maelstrom until you looked at some armor values because obviously the dps potential of deso is all related to the armor debuff.
swiftending consistently goes shadowblade slark and hes 6.5 i dont think u can just call sblade an item to use against bad ppl
that would be the same as saying nyx is only good vs bad ppl
well thats what matrice and other ppl are saying in the thread no?
there's ton of bad people at 6k you know.
The only real good game are made by almost full 6k+, but since there's not a lot of people that high, we are constantly matches with/against people that are far lower
matrice vs swiftending ???!!
A lot of these things aren't used vs bad players but the items or heroes are able to take advantage of mistakes much more than others. For instance Riki, it doesn't just work vs bad players just players who aren't willing to dedicate that much attention to you with in turn allows you to snowball.
Shadowblade allows you to find kills on heroes that are not equipped to deal with you...
> The support warding alone
> The carry farming a lane alone
> Junglers etc.
Its not that any of these are bad but the SB while it has been labelled a "noob" item is good at being able to catch people off guard
^ yea that's pretty much the advantage of sb
i would also give honorable mention of having ur passive regen in the middle of a fight using shadow blade, without having to fully retreat out of vision, which lets u nab 1-2 additional kills because people mistakenly think ur gone
i can't position myself to use blink + pounce to save my life so i just use swiftending's build
there's no "right or wrong" build in certain cases; there's a 6k void picker who goes exclusively battlefury in his games. while most people including myself would think mjllonir is the better alternative it's not as if bfury is terrible/not viable (though i heard that guy has a terrible attitude and flames/mutes everyone when the shit hits the fan)
crit is so much better than mjolnir xD
unless you are an utility void ofc, in which case it's okeyish, but still inferior
yes crits are better for obtaining kills, but i mean for the purposes of farming (people get either maelstrom or bfury)
I honestly dislike the Mjolnir Void build though I do it. I used to just got Treads, MoM, Crit, Roshan, End.
for farming aswell... the speed you got from mjolnir, is also getting some creep less on the lane, or you don't full auto attack, and when you are at your next item, it doesn't matter anymore since you almost no longer hit a creep wave when your own are there
But mjollnir has the lightning proc, which is really good for clearing waves/camps. Why is crit better for farming too?
And more attack speed should equal more bash procs during ult right? Crit is still better here? Why?
cause crit give WAY more dps, and even in chrono it's better, even considering the bash. In addition outside of chrono that advantage is even more clear, last but not least, crit scale better than mjolnir, and basically almost every dps item scales better than mjolnir.
@ matrice, what is your full item build on slark and in what order do you get those items?
sy skady basher hyperstone abysal cuirasse butter
usually
basher before skady sometime
some time dagger
mkb or hex or tarasque instead of butter
sometime butter instead of cuirasse
http://devilesk.com/dota2/apps/hero-calculator/ says void at 16 (4/4/4/3 1stats) with power treads (agi)
Daedulus = 330 dps
Daedulus + mask of madness active = 494 dps
Mjollnir = 317 dps
Mjollnir + mask active = 429
Crystalis = 215
Crystalis + mask active = 321
Maelstrom = 245
Maelstromg + mask active = 354
So it looks like you are right, when going mask daedulus is a lot more dps than mjollnir's but I do not know if that calculation considers the proc only hitting one target or hitting multiples. I still feel a quick maelstrom for farming is the way to go but I will probably never finish mjollnir's now, instead go right into crystalis -> daedulus
hey matrice based on what timberwolf said would u consider maelstrom into crit a good option?
I don't even know how good that calculator is, I just found it on google so take everything I wrote with a grain of salt! I just like the maths behind dota and for void I think it works fine because you are going to be non stop hitting someone for the duration of a chrono.
daedalus + item that is not mjolnir > mjolnir + crit in terms of dps
(sorry being lazy about writting the calculation, i already made it on some french forum xD)
Ignoring (a) the proc (hits other targets), (b) active of mjollnir is silly, does that also include time lock bashes? I don't think that anyone underrates buriza on void, but by itself you are a lot more reliant on your ultimate than an alternative item. The other side of this is that MoM + Maelstrom increases your farm rate by heaps.
Looking at things from a purely DPS (even worse when you ignore a lot of the DPS) perspective is retarded, the game is not that simple.
u get alot more magic dps from lock + lightning procs though just saying
ynits nuts
I believe that calculator accounts for everything (bashes, the procs) cus all it has to do is calc your attack speed and proc chance. But I don't think it calculates mjollnir hitting all 5 to 8 targets or however many it can hit with lightning, and those values are also before armor reductions which doesn't matter much on creeps since they have very little armor. For example I plugged a deso in and it was less dps than a maelstrom until you looked at some armor values because obviously the dps potential of deso is all related to the armor debuff.