Meepo, void, phantom assassin, invoker.
Really anything before he gets bkb, or just get a single bkb buster and he is dead
how exactly does meepo counter troll, i fail to see that. or void, or pa.
honestly snipers good vs troll, and mb omni
Kite him with sniper, dazzle, lich etc. or burst him down with heroes like axe, zeus and razor.
(SD)[uG]Greygrey7
Meepo is heavily countered by Troll warlord. its practically unwinnable unless you shit hard on their entire team and they never make any comeback.
Troll is good because he has the blind and nothing can help you vs blind, once he also has BKB he is practically immune to Meepo himself. now this is not end of the world but:
his ulti.
troll himself is managable but its never that easy. usually people pick troll + at least 1 more carry/semicarry that is going to benefit from the troll's ultimate. ;)
Kite and cc him while bkb is down. Since troll pops bkb like candy it'll be down to 5 seconds quickly and then u just wait for it and hit him hard with like ogre and a bunch of other stuns and nukes.
lc, slark and abbadon can purge blind, but the easiest way to kill him is by having a disabler and hitter gank him.
@Dravic, once he gets the bkb up he is hard to manage but it is still completely possible. Build blink dagger and eblade, blink poof on him and cast the eblade while the meepos are landing on top of him. This will deal 566 damage instantly, if he has the bkb up he will pop it right now, here is where you need any stunner to get on him. Right after the poof, before the bkb, a venge or beastmaster is great here (beastmaster because he goes through bkb.) Now hit him hard, you will probably be atleast level 20-21 by the time troll warlord has bkb if he went a normal build so you are already dealing damage with your right clicks, your eblade is giving you an extra 40 agility so now that you have 5 meepos on top of him that is an extra 200 damage per second, if the stun lasts anything longer than 2.5 seconds than troll warlord is insta dead (You will deal about 310 damage per right click if your only items are BoT, aghs, blink and eblade.) (Also, the 2 seconds that geostrike will get from this will be enough to deal another 280 damage)
Troll warlord isnt that tanky if you don't let him set himself up in teamfights, the only cooldowns you cost yourself to do this were eblade, a few poofs, blink and whatever stun you used to give you space to get the damage on. Now if you were able to instantly get troll warlord down you still have that pesky semi carry to worry about, however if it only took you that small combo to melt the troll than any other stun or bkb preventer will do nicely since troll will probably have popped his ulti during that tiny encounter.
To the rest of the discussion, Void counters troll because if troll can never get set to fight then he will never be a problem, just jump on and chrono him, get some damage dealt and make him run back. Same applies to pa but in the opposite way, if anyone gets damage on troll warlord then hop on him, get a crit or something and he is pretty close to dead.
Invoker can counter because of the deafening blast and the ghost walk to get away. I don't really see how sniper counters troll other than being able to kite him but that doesn't really apply if he just picks up shadow blade, hops on you, throws axes in ranged and swaps to melee to bash and prevent you from hitting him. If he isn't solo then a shadowblade will be useless against him to get away because dust will always be there if you have a troll on your team.
I agree with what misanthropist said about bursting him down, razor is a really smart choice because attack speed cant do anything if he has no damage to show for it.
pa definitely does not counter troll are you high
she slows, blinks, he blinds, then what?
she bkb, he bkb, he has attack speed and bash, you got no slow and no attack speed, then what?
'pretty close to dead' is not 'dead', a troll that's pretty close to dead will kill you
@le mayo, anyone on your team stuns the troll after you jump on him and then he cant bkb :D
perhaps once mkbs come out the matchup gets more even but even then troll has a bash and ultimate that lets him gain attack speed when opponents have bkb, unlike pa, and will probably bash you before you crit
if you want to factor a stun ... someone stuns pa, troll kills her? like i dont think that's an argument there
@original question: as with apparently everything, lion seems like a good idea?
troll will always out manfight pa until ultralate
slarks also an awful counter to troll seeing as troll can never die to a shadowblade gank and u have to hold ur pact as slark to avoid being axed
Blink(poof), Sheep, Net. Punch him, then Eblade him when he blinds you. If he has a BKB just run away and EBlade the meepo he is targetting. Then finish him when his blind ends, or just channel a poof timed so that it will hit him after BKB (assuming is a low CD bkb)
It *probably* won't work as well in V.High, but in normal/high you can easily kill a troll this way.
ursa a good counter, stops his 15 minute solo rosh. shadow shaman too but u can't be playing position 4 or 5. If you plan on winning early get 2 stunners, or late get sniper.
You can build Blink/Aghs in about 14 mins. You can build a sheep by about 20-25mins depending if you get Travels or not. EBlade by 30-35.
Meepo is farm king(s).
OMG. all of so are so wrong XD
i had played vs all heroes with troll over many games on various accounts.
overall good heroes vs troll are zeus, beastmaster, aghs doom with refresh (as he/his team will have linkens); lancer/naga IF fat. void can work if he is fatter AND uses ult on troll alone and he doesnt pop satanic with >25÷ hp left to kill you.
tinker with pernahex seems to work best but if he pops bkb faster than you hex and you cant blink out... you die in 2secs.
ursa is bad. works 50÷ of the time until midgame/lategame. jugg and wk is annoying until mid-late/lategame. tiny is good in early and midgame; craggy too op, also can toss bkb troll to waste duration.
spec or medusa need superior farm to have good chance; i won quite a few games vs hard carries like morph, luna, gyro, sven, pa and above in lategame
HH works for aslong he doesnt pop bkb. then use abyss on him.
splitpushing is ok strat vs him since his antipush is ok; but not great. avoid fights with him and you should be fine.
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dazzle, ww and oracle can prolong your void life; omni can be countered by diffusal that can be bought by anyone; troll himself even.
troll is best manfighter in game. it needs whole chrono or to be fight by not man-fightning to be brought down.
i dont have many 1v1 games with troll but viper, death prophet, sky, oracle seems to work great vs him in mid
troll wins all of those matchups
whirling axes low manacost means u can use it literally every time its off cd on the enemy mid laner and prevent him from csing or trading hits at all
troll wins all of those matchups
whirling axes low manacost means u can use it literally every time its off cd on the enemy mid laner and prevent him from csing or trading hits at all
Same as PA, he only has +1 int gain with very low base int, so OD works pretty well once you're 6. OD ult even pierces BKB. nvm, only burns mana no damage. Remembered wrong.
Axe and Legion with blademails can turn his insane dps and attack speed against him.
And since he's a hero with only natural attack speed, not damage, you can stop him from doing damage with Razor static link (goes through bkb).
Void and Doom (with aghs) are always good too.
Since he's a single-target hero you can also counter him with PL (use doppelganger or diffusal to purge blindness).
imwould say bane is kinda good against both troll and jugg, but since i dont see him in current meta, then probably i miss something
Bane is nice against them, just out of meta since mirana is too I guess. Other than his ulti, he doe not bring much else good utility other than a set up skill (nightmare) as a support. His nuke is pure pure damage, not even get crippled from eating on your brain, and only heals yourself, not your allies.
@Pomi
I was thinking mostly about his 1st and 4th skills as good contribution to teamfights against jugg/troll.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1293249588
while boosting account i noticed 1st pick troll. so i decided to pick void vs him and use ult just for him. Here are the results
i thought 3k people dont use wards XD
so i underestimated them went smokeless rosh and it caused my team to die twice. should had told them
Viper is decent... anything that can kite him and tank well... or just never have to 1v1 him/ can stay away from him... the blind only works up to 450 range... MKB carriers are good too in this regard if you can't get out of its range... so viper early and like skadi mkb hero... I like sniper or medusa for this if you want to out late game. he's really susceptible to nuke early though...
magnus + one hard hitter.
I personnaly like a lot magnus + slark, cause then, even if he build tanky, he still gonna rape his face afterward due to the 10 easy stack you just stole to him.
That, + darkpact to cancel the bash, + ult, is basically 10 sec of free hitting on troll from slark.
Edit: medusa nope, but sniper y
Why not medusa matrice? Skadi and 600 range stays out of his blind range... the shield makes her super tanky and stone gaze when troll ults either wastes his ult or gets some petrification going on. I've not played it much (usually pick sniper), but on paper it sounds pretty damn good.
EDIT:
@Dora the explorer... it depends on who you get... I try hard when I support and ward constantly... If I'm solo support (1 protect 4) though I will just straight up refuse to deward... ain't nobody got cash for that any one else helps out with cour or warding and I'll even deward XD.
@TripleSteal. Elipses are just something I use man, it's not something I can stop for non-formal writing. It's literally gaps in my internal monologue when I'm typing... works better than a comma or fullstop as it has more visual impact.
@EV.Hatsune. Is that vs. trying to just kite him I take it? I assume you mean because they are good initiation tools? I'm not entirely sure tbh... I'm expecting a nerf to him, but I've done not bad just keeping him down early and farming up a good teamfight physical hero... though I'm deep in Normal trench... (I tried Triple... I TRIED!)
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I was wondering what people consider good counters to him.