General Discussionif u play lion

its longer than written cz the time you spend being tossed does not count. its about half a second, i dont remember the exact time (0.49 mb, or 0.51?)

2.5 hex gives you distance advantage of about 400, Spikes give you advantage of about 300, while also dealing 80 damage and keeping an enemy in one place instead of 140 move speed with hex.

@TripleSteal-
The air time counts in that duration, it's 0.51 seconds, that's why you get those numbers (1.02/1.52 etc. )

^so is stun actually 0.51 at lvl1? i thought it is not counted for lion and nyx initially. at least, it was not included in stun duration in older patches.

i've seen my lions miss a bunch of impales today so i'm more inclined to think that it's not as "reliable" as u claim

lol how do u miss earth spike

its like missing a hex rolf

like if u ground target it which gives you more cast range u can miss it so yea

Don't forget that Earth Spike can also hit multiple targets, which can be useful for 0:00 rune engagements.

thanks for reminding me bruh, i forgot that it can hit multiple people

"Don't forget that Earth Spike can also hit multiple targets"

Glad I could help

Or just wait with skilling either until you see what is best to use? Depends how far they are fro you and how many heroes there are anyway. If you go a level without using either, you could go earth spike + mana drain for harassing and sucking them off. Hex has long cooldown level 1, so not as good to spam for mana draining (and gotta be closer to hex them than hitting with point target earth spike).

well, u are an smurf, so u suck

Imma keep skilling Earth Spike first anyway so that you'll get so mad your head will explode. Then you'll be dead and the world will be a better place.

Also, shorter cooldown.

Most people get so hooked up on Earth Spike doing damage while Hex does not and don't realize they in that additional hex duration, both you and your allies could have gotten extra hits in.

The only way Earth Spike would be better at Hex at level 1 is if that you were confident you could stun multiple Heroes. And don't listen to people who don't know the actual stun duration. Its 1.02 INCLUDING air time. "Stun duration consists of 0.52 seconds air time + 0.5/1/1.5/2 seconds actual stun time." from the wikia.

Also, the argument of being able to move at 140ms is a very weak one. Thats barely any distance and only matters if you hex someone right before they enter uphill fog. And even then the additional 1 second for you to travel more than double the distance the hex unit would have makes up for it.

tl;dr hex better most of the time

it really depends. if you are going into 5 man lvl1 gank and run into other 5 man, impale gives you more value.
if it's 3 lane vs offlaner hex is better.

you don't pre pick spells on 90% of heroes anyways.

im sure jiyo is trolling. he cant be that stupid.

only reason to take vodoo level 1 is for surprise factor and for intended usage at the edge of the range.

mind blowing thread

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1386164114
im mvp lion qwee vs bb btw we won... 4v5:P graph funny

btw it depends.. i think its better get Q when planing to pickoff on 0:00 at bounty rune

?

I already gave the reasonings? If you're not going against multiple heroes level 1, then get Hex. If you're going against multiple heroes and have confidence in your stunning skills, get Earth Spike.

Was there there something with this thought process? An additional 1.5 second disable makes it worth more than 80 damage and you have to weigh in the fact that enemies won't intentionally cluster and lineup for you to multistun. Meaning you often have to hold back your stun which can be detrimental in getting the bounty rune depending on who went to rune war with you.

Are you all trolling or genuinely stupid?

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1365009986 sure the true disabler

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1405595277