im never sure. i like to win with retard team and retard ennemy against me. but i also like winning in high mmr ranked games but i have to pick boring hero like undying or suport with wd or ss in 4.6k. ability draft is meh and ardm is terible since its luck mostly. i think the best is to win in high mmr games with boring heros. then to play a fun hero and winning with/against noobs most of the time. hmm yea. and slark mid is terible. should be safelane always
go slark mid vs a crazy sf that keep spamming his waves or qop. its hard bruh :( not in normal skill ranked i did it ez there. but in 3.4k mmr ( i know its shit mmr ) its still hard.
As I have tried to explain to Bogi, and on this forum plenty of times before - the difference between truly excellent players (say 5k+) and experienced players (maybe 3 thousand games, but still 3k to 4k) is usually a matter of natural talent for perceiving and reacting to a game where everything happens in fractions of a second. Most people simply cannot see the game in real time, much less take actions appropriately. This has nothing to do with understanding the game. Bad decisions are most often made because players perception of reality in the game in real time is false.
Believing you can get a kill, or get away, etc. and being wrong is almost always a matter of skill, not judgement as if you were sitting down to answer a question on a test or in an interview. It's just like missing the ball pitched to you at 90 miles per hour. You didn't "stupidly" swing the bat at the wrong time. You didn't fail to comprehend that you were supposed to hit the ball to the gap in left center field.... you just can't hit the ball, and also can't really see the path it takes to the plate anyway. Understanding has no place in the explanation of why most people fail to play dota like a pro.
Another side point => which items are best depends on your skill. The items that require more skill to use are more successful at higher MMR. If low mmr players tried to use them they would just fail more. The recent craze for Mask of Madness in 6.83c was a good example. MoM reduces your margin for error by increasing move speed and damage taken. Because of this, when lower skill players use it they are likely to kill themselves. It is a much better item for an exceptionally talented player than an ordinary player regardless of game situation or heroes.
Now some 3k players are idiots, and some 6k players are also idiots. Everyone makes bad decisions sometimes, but as a general rule 5k players have only the tiniest bit more game knowledge than 3k. The extra game knowledge they do have has to do with the fact that they experience the game at a different speed. 3k players are unaware of what really happens in their games unless they watch a lot of replays so they can see it.
If you can grasp the understanding that your teammates are NOT idiots (usually, there are exceptions) - if you can get that straight in your mind. You will be able to work with them so much better, understanding that most of their mistakes are because they didn't see what happened and could not click it. If you persist in the believe that other players are morons you will never be able to work with them because you will not trust them. Trust and respect for other players is required to have a functioning team.
When I become convinced that my team is a bunch of morons, or for whatever reason not trying to win - that is when dota is not fun. Don't do this. Practice some wisdom. It's your choice. You can arrogantly reject wisdom and be miserable. Or you can accept it, change how you think, and grow.
i know 6k mentality. they dont read any post unless ur 6k mmr and + . its logic. if i were was 6k i would be like every1 is a retard but me . :). true story
@KiTraK your fine dont worry. just saying that other 4k players are dumb is not true. Alot of 4k players are good. Just they are selfish with times like you and me. they think they know everything and are the ONE. every humans are dumb since theyre just humans. the brain is capable of so many thing but shit.
but hey let praise the scientist and others researchers soon we'll be human-bryoid cyber. wtv name it is . humanoid i think. it gonna be iunsane we wont be just animalshumans but fucking half machines and half humans. its alrdy starting with nano technology its insaneeee aaaaaa !!!!
if i were rich i would give shitload of money to science to save ppl. they found the telemere a shit that regenerate adn. you cold live 1000 years. wthout needing a machine or a fake heart
Kitrak very talented people need lots of practice to overcome other very talented people, but to say that there is no such thing as talent is simply obdurate.
People have widely varying natural talents in everything. A 4' tall midget cannot, no matter how hard he tries or practices become a 7' tall giant. Its not a matter of understanding, or desire, or effort. Hard work and careful study can allow you to fulfill potential. But potential is not unlimited, nor equaly distributed. To pretend otherwise is absurd. If you cannot at this time recognize that people are not equal in abilities then it can only be because you are still a nub in real life - because it is obvious to everyone who has lived enough to observe themselves and others hitting their limits.
In the same way a 6'11" man, though he is very tall - cannot become a 7' man. Both may look very tall to short people. It may be hard from the perspective of an ordinary person looking up at them to see the difference if you don't see them together. But when measured the 7' man will always be taller. In the same way, the most talented dota pros are still better than the less talented pros => and they cannot overcome this difference, it is a permanent advantage. This is why the same few players are consistently and obviously superstars in dota 2, and every sport.
Some people want to learn more and actually improve instead of bitching all day.
Simply play enough games while figuring out how to stop bad habits, replacing them with good ones.
IMO it all comes down to dedication and autism. Most people don't truly give a shit about improving their game.
who the fuck is blunt lol. blunt is a cigar with weed that we used to smoke and be lonely after that. drink alchohol but nottoo much or ull look retarded i know that
but a blunt. what a shitty 17 yr old thing we smoked. we used to put honey on that and we were high and then we were like hurrr... so... who am i... i dont know.. hurrr. .. is this fun or not... hurrrr
soemtime in 3.4k i hjear. wait let me hitr the blunt . GG i alrduy know we lost .some dumb fuck hit a bong before playing nyx offlane and then is like wtf
Kitrak map awareness requires vision. People do not have equal vision. You think checking the mini-map is fairly easy and straight forward and you imagine that those who dont' check it enough are just dumb. But reality is, they don't check it because even when they do they can't see. They can't process the info and do anything with it in the seconds ppl appears or not on the map.
When I watch a player with world class talent play they often do item checks so fast that I can't even see them doing it. To me the camera just flashes to one spot and back, I may not even see that much. If I blink I will miss it entirely. When I watch low skill players do an item check it may take them 3 to 6 seconds to process what is in inventory. When an ordinary player checks the mini-map, the fact that you could see a hero coming to gank them walk right past the river ward spot does not matter. Many, many times I have seen people ganked by heroes standing in ward vision for an entire creep wave - they then complain about the lack of wards. Often this occurs when the wards are still up!
This is because they cannot see like you can. You must know that some people require glasses to see long distances clearly. You must know that some require glasses to read. Some people are legally blind. Also some have outstanding vision far better than normal. And there is also everything in between. In the same way everyone is not equal in the ability to see the tiny colors and shapes on the mini-map, most peoples brains will not register those fleeting glimpses of color as anything to be seen. The fact that you can is UNSUAL.
When you grow up, and accept these truths you will look back and remember that I told you. This is an important lesson to learn, not just for dota, but also for life. Everyone does not think, move, and experience the world the same way you do. Expecting them too is foolishly short sighted.
And you are completely wrong about what a 4k player can know how to do. I have seen 3k players do all of the things you describe just today. However, there were many failures of perception and execution.
How to anticipate ganks? Are you kidding? I see 3k players anticipate ganks every single game - backing not from just ward vision of a gank, but from map position and the lack of enemies. Just today I saw 3k players use blinks, shadowblade, jukes into fog, and tp scrolls to avoid ganks they could not see yet on the mini-map but were coming based on the timing and map position of what could be seen. It happens in nearly every single 3k game.
I see 3k carries perform relatively optimal farming rotations all the time. They are not as good at it as a 5k, but they know to do it! Do you honestly think that stuff is some kind of secret knowledge that is difficult to learn? Do you really not comprehend that the reason their farm is less on average is that they miss lasthits?
Every single game 3k players play in lanes where they have a disadvantage. Every game. Some of them can't deal with it well - the same is true of some 5k players. Some people get greedy and take more risks and pay for it. The primary determining factor in whether you can get something out of a tough lane is speed and skill. This is because when you are at risk of taking excessive harassment or actually being killed the precise second by second position of your hero is critical. And a 3k player just cannot control his hero the way a 5k player can. This has NOTHING to do with understanding that a two stun lane can kill you if you get in range of the first stun... or that a tri-lane has a lot of kill potential.
Now if I lane like Demon used to do and cut trees with a q-blade to hide as a melee solo offlaner against a tri-lane, that might be an advanced tactic 3k players will not know. But really the game knowledge gap is not very large. Its merely quickness. Plenty of 5k players absolutely suck at warding because they have played all carry heroes. Plenty of 3k players know warding and counter warding in great detail having played all support heroes.
Everyone has their own ideas about who to prioritize in fights and for most players in any skill bracket short of pros that is determined on impulse in the first two seconds of a clash. Those who can see what is happening make better choices. Those who can only see a lot of bright colors and lights because it is too fast for them usually attack whoever their eyes fixes on first. That is not a lack of understanding it is a lack of skill.
Relentless obviously knows that there's insane difference between 5k's and 3k's, he's just separating things that i count as game knowledge from it, cause he has limited game knowledge :) He can write 3 more novels about it and actually saying nothing, and he still wont convince me that he knows enough to be 5k player, even if he could mechanically exectute things properly. In theory maybe he knows a bit more then casual 3k, but when it comes down to real knowledge that wins you the games - he knows the same as every scrub in that bracket.
im never sure. i like to win with retard team and retard ennemy against me. but i also like winning in high mmr ranked games but i have to pick boring hero like undying or suport with wd or ss in 4.6k. ability draft is meh and ardm is terible since its luck mostly. i think the best is to win in high mmr games with boring heros. then to play a fun hero and winning with/against noobs most of the time. hmm yea. and slark mid is terible. should be safelane always
slark mid best mid. slark mid or your a casual filth
go slark mid vs a crazy sf that keep spamming his waves or qop. its hard bruh :( not in normal skill ranked i did it ez there. but in 3.4k mmr ( i know its shit mmr ) its still hard.
the pudge is the easiest hero to fuckup mid.
As I have tried to explain to Bogi, and on this forum plenty of times before - the difference between truly excellent players (say 5k+) and experienced players (maybe 3 thousand games, but still 3k to 4k) is usually a matter of natural talent for perceiving and reacting to a game where everything happens in fractions of a second. Most people simply cannot see the game in real time, much less take actions appropriately. This has nothing to do with understanding the game. Bad decisions are most often made because players perception of reality in the game in real time is false.
Believing you can get a kill, or get away, etc. and being wrong is almost always a matter of skill, not judgement as if you were sitting down to answer a question on a test or in an interview. It's just like missing the ball pitched to you at 90 miles per hour. You didn't "stupidly" swing the bat at the wrong time. You didn't fail to comprehend that you were supposed to hit the ball to the gap in left center field.... you just can't hit the ball, and also can't really see the path it takes to the plate anyway. Understanding has no place in the explanation of why most people fail to play dota like a pro.
Another side point => which items are best depends on your skill. The items that require more skill to use are more successful at higher MMR. If low mmr players tried to use them they would just fail more. The recent craze for Mask of Madness in 6.83c was a good example. MoM reduces your margin for error by increasing move speed and damage taken. Because of this, when lower skill players use it they are likely to kill themselves. It is a much better item for an exceptionally talented player than an ordinary player regardless of game situation or heroes.
Now some 3k players are idiots, and some 6k players are also idiots. Everyone makes bad decisions sometimes, but as a general rule 5k players have only the tiniest bit more game knowledge than 3k. The extra game knowledge they do have has to do with the fact that they experience the game at a different speed. 3k players are unaware of what really happens in their games unless they watch a lot of replays so they can see it.
If you can grasp the understanding that your teammates are NOT idiots (usually, there are exceptions) - if you can get that straight in your mind. You will be able to work with them so much better, understanding that most of their mistakes are because they didn't see what happened and could not click it. If you persist in the believe that other players are morons you will never be able to work with them because you will not trust them. Trust and respect for other players is required to have a functioning team.
When I become convinced that my team is a bunch of morons, or for whatever reason not trying to win - that is when dota is not fun. Don't do this. Practice some wisdom. It's your choice. You can arrogantly reject wisdom and be miserable. Or you can accept it, change how you think, and grow.
^
@ Relentless play more undy offlane with guardain greave and win more mmr
well Relentless takes it, Bogi is a little stuped man anyway who plays too much defence of the ancients 2
i know 6k mentality. they dont read any post unless ur 6k mmr and + . its logic. if i were was 6k i would be like every1 is a retard but me . :). true story
life is the same shit. we have social classes. dota is one more social class. ggwp
money is mostly the thing to hit important social class. ohh noo we diddnt know!
i still respect more a rich man that can afford many 6k account then a 6k player that play everyday
@KiTraK your fine dont worry. just saying that other 4k players are dumb is not true. Alot of 4k players are good. Just they are selfish with times like you and me. they think they know everything and are the ONE. every humans are dumb since theyre just humans. the brain is capable of so many thing but shit.
but hey let praise the scientist and others researchers soon we'll be human-bryoid cyber. wtv name it is . humanoid i think. it gonna be iunsane we wont be just animalshumans but fucking half machines and half humans. its alrdy starting with nano technology its insaneeee aaaaaa !!!!
like and ppl are like meh it wont happen or meh i dont care. dude its crazy ! every generation shit is crazyer. like we fly now mehhhh....
if i were rich i would give shitload of money to science to save ppl. they found the telemere a shit that regenerate adn. you cold live 1000 years. wthout needing a machine or a fake heart
in the end all we say is pointless ! but totally pointless
Kitrak very talented people need lots of practice to overcome other very talented people, but to say that there is no such thing as talent is simply obdurate.
People have widely varying natural talents in everything. A 4' tall midget cannot, no matter how hard he tries or practices become a 7' tall giant. Its not a matter of understanding, or desire, or effort. Hard work and careful study can allow you to fulfill potential. But potential is not unlimited, nor equaly distributed. To pretend otherwise is absurd. If you cannot at this time recognize that people are not equal in abilities then it can only be because you are still a nub in real life - because it is obvious to everyone who has lived enough to observe themselves and others hitting their limits.
In the same way a 6'11" man, though he is very tall - cannot become a 7' man. Both may look very tall to short people. It may be hard from the perspective of an ordinary person looking up at them to see the difference if you don't see them together. But when measured the 7' man will always be taller. In the same way, the most talented dota pros are still better than the less talented pros => and they cannot overcome this difference, it is a permanent advantage. This is why the same few players are consistently and obviously superstars in dota 2, and every sport.
^ wtv he said
[Youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGfTLb6RFk0[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGfTLb6RFk0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwMjazrwPak
Wouldn't say that Dota2 requites talent.
Some people want to learn more and actually improve instead of bitching all day.
Simply play enough games while figuring out how to stop bad habits, replacing them with good ones.
IMO it all comes down to dedication and autism. Most people don't truly give a shit about improving their game.
^ what? plz eplain better all i head was bitching
I don't associate with bullies.
or mb my english is terible we all know that. you must be right!
its no bully in here. its dotabuff forum everything you say is heard by anyone your voice is heard. now Let me hear your VOICE
You big bully
show some cyber ballz and say what u gotta say
i think you wanna have sex with me ..
Why you bully that guy Blunt in 7th grade?
who the fuck is blunt lol. blunt is a cigar with weed that we used to smoke and be lonely after that. drink alchohol but nottoo much or ull look retarded i know that
Blunt was put in the hospital because of you.
but a blunt. what a shitty 17 yr old thing we smoked. we used to put honey on that and we were high and then we were like hurrr... so... who am i... i dont know.. hurrr. .. is this fun or not... hurrrr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdjBDtn1es0
soemtime in 3.4k i hjear. wait let me hitr the blunt . GG i alrduy know we lost .some dumb fuck hit a bong before playing nyx offlane and then is like wtf
let me hit the bong* pause game
like first hit ur bong before searching and hitting yes in ranked 3.4k game and drink alchohol its better
alchohol will destroy ur body faster but still you will play dota as agressive state
on weed you will play dota in whre am i did i just missed my hook JAJAJAJ!
LIKE ITS A BIG GAME AND ITS FUN WHEN ITS NOT!!! ITS SERIOUS RANKED BUSINESS !
if u wanna meet me and palay with PROS its simple GO USEAST!!!!!!!!!
Kitrak map awareness requires vision. People do not have equal vision. You think checking the mini-map is fairly easy and straight forward and you imagine that those who dont' check it enough are just dumb. But reality is, they don't check it because even when they do they can't see. They can't process the info and do anything with it in the seconds ppl appears or not on the map.
When I watch a player with world class talent play they often do item checks so fast that I can't even see them doing it. To me the camera just flashes to one spot and back, I may not even see that much. If I blink I will miss it entirely. When I watch low skill players do an item check it may take them 3 to 6 seconds to process what is in inventory. When an ordinary player checks the mini-map, the fact that you could see a hero coming to gank them walk right past the river ward spot does not matter. Many, many times I have seen people ganked by heroes standing in ward vision for an entire creep wave - they then complain about the lack of wards. Often this occurs when the wards are still up!
This is because they cannot see like you can. You must know that some people require glasses to see long distances clearly. You must know that some require glasses to read. Some people are legally blind. Also some have outstanding vision far better than normal. And there is also everything in between. In the same way everyone is not equal in the ability to see the tiny colors and shapes on the mini-map, most peoples brains will not register those fleeting glimpses of color as anything to be seen. The fact that you can is UNSUAL.
When you grow up, and accept these truths you will look back and remember that I told you. This is an important lesson to learn, not just for dota, but also for life. Everyone does not think, move, and experience the world the same way you do. Expecting them too is foolishly short sighted.
And you are completely wrong about what a 4k player can know how to do. I have seen 3k players do all of the things you describe just today. However, there were many failures of perception and execution.
How to anticipate ganks? Are you kidding? I see 3k players anticipate ganks every single game - backing not from just ward vision of a gank, but from map position and the lack of enemies. Just today I saw 3k players use blinks, shadowblade, jukes into fog, and tp scrolls to avoid ganks they could not see yet on the mini-map but were coming based on the timing and map position of what could be seen. It happens in nearly every single 3k game.
I see 3k carries perform relatively optimal farming rotations all the time. They are not as good at it as a 5k, but they know to do it! Do you honestly think that stuff is some kind of secret knowledge that is difficult to learn? Do you really not comprehend that the reason their farm is less on average is that they miss lasthits?
Every single game 3k players play in lanes where they have a disadvantage. Every game. Some of them can't deal with it well - the same is true of some 5k players. Some people get greedy and take more risks and pay for it. The primary determining factor in whether you can get something out of a tough lane is speed and skill. This is because when you are at risk of taking excessive harassment or actually being killed the precise second by second position of your hero is critical. And a 3k player just cannot control his hero the way a 5k player can. This has NOTHING to do with understanding that a two stun lane can kill you if you get in range of the first stun... or that a tri-lane has a lot of kill potential.
Now if I lane like Demon used to do and cut trees with a q-blade to hide as a melee solo offlaner against a tri-lane, that might be an advanced tactic 3k players will not know. But really the game knowledge gap is not very large. Its merely quickness. Plenty of 5k players absolutely suck at warding because they have played all carry heroes. Plenty of 3k players know warding and counter warding in great detail having played all support heroes.
Everyone has their own ideas about who to prioritize in fights and for most players in any skill bracket short of pros that is determined on impulse in the first two seconds of a clash. Those who can see what is happening make better choices. Those who can only see a lot of bright colors and lights because it is too fast for them usually attack whoever their eyes fixes on first. That is not a lack of understanding it is a lack of skill.
this thread went a bit too wise and thoughtful, so time of easy solutions came. captain summonned:
the actual difference between 5k and 3k is 2k
Relentless is working on his PhD in Dota2.
Relentless obviously knows that there's insane difference between 5k's and 3k's, he's just separating things that i count as game knowledge from it, cause he has limited game knowledge :) He can write 3 more novels about it and actually saying nothing, and he still wont convince me that he knows enough to be 5k player, even if he could mechanically exectute things properly. In theory maybe he knows a bit more then casual 3k, but when it comes down to real knowledge that wins you the games - he knows the same as every scrub in that bracket.
Don't agree with everything that Relentless 'publishes' yet his stuff is always fun to read.