i dont wish to rise to anything just playin homie..i just think people have a bad thought about her because of late game but in my expirence, yes at sub 5k mmr, she alone can force games to go 40+ minutes
Simple. Flak Cannon has no target cap, Luna hits harder without any farm than Medusa (good agi gain and passives help a ton here), and she's also way more mobile and can farm heroes as well. Also much more independent and can lane on her own so she gets those levels faster.
Normal skill player here i think its just due to the meta high skill see what pros pick so copy them, friends with lower skill copy them and goes down to us at normal skill too.
Gyro doesn't farm faster imo, maybe if you get supports to triple stack for you. Both farm super fast. Luna farms a tad quicker but it really doesn't matter cus all three are capable of clearing jungle and a lane every minute anyway which is the most farm you'll get without stacks or teleporting to new lanes. Your farm is more limited by movement speed than dps. Luna does have best move speed.
But they're all very different heroes. Luna mid game is easily countered by bkb before she has enough right click and depends on ult. Gyro has shit range so he can die in team fights easily if not careful though of course flak has awesome range. But neither can touch medusa in terms of tank. Gyro and Luna both depend on high dmg = high lifesteal. Medusa doesn't she has massive ehp. They function very differently. Gyros probably best if you want to fight at 20 mins, Luna if you have a push team and medusa if you have protection and can take game super late.
This is all good info thank you I just stil get a vibe that people dont want to say medusa is good. Other than Dire Wolf here but still great info thank youall
I'm telling you I love playing medusa and I love playing against her cus at 30 mins all they have is linkens. That's why most people hate her cus people farm so slow on her. Plus in general normal skill doesn't know how to farm. I have to find the match but my team started like 10-2 and gave medusa 30 mins of free farm and she didn't even have skadi. Like had no clue where to go find creeps.
Most people are going for super useless builds on dusa.
She is tanky by nature thanks to mana shield, yet people rush for linkens skadi while she doesnt need that... whats the point in surviving all shit while your team goes down and you do zero dmg? best dusa build for early game ownage and 30-40min gg no re:
phase boots maelstorm mom dagger. you jump into 5 with dagger, use your ultimate, pop mom and just go wild with your splitshot.
Unless your team is total retard, you can win every fight like that.
Enemy is forced to either split up/look away to avoid your ulti or they try to kill you despite ulti and get rekt by your autoattack enhanced by mom and maelstorm. Now if your team also does a little bit its an ez win.
medusa is really good . ppl go spec against ursa sven? what? you naive prick get that ez dusa farm. dusa can farm cuz shes RANGED. and her snake own the shit out of everything now. her ulti is op too. not in 6k but in most pub games you can win ez with a duda. she farm pretty fast at 25 min shes alrdy hard to kill. yea medusa is boring but ez mmr
' and why cant you gank with medusa? ' - well, let's say you try to gank a lane. You show up you throw your snakes => enemy just runs away and laughs. Awesome ganks you got going there. Dude Dusa has no lockdown and no mobility., WTf makes you think she is a viable ganker? Point being ofc she can try and gank, but if your opp's are not braindead it won't do shit.
yes cus only vhs people deserve to play dota and make strategic hero picks of course.
We are almost all normal/high skill so why wouldn't we offer each other fucking advice? In many ways our perspective is better than yours cus we know the shit we deal with in our bracket, you don't. You aren't going to take meepos or earth spirits and win in normal skill. You can easily win with medusa.
the only dota that really exists is the dota that the 5k+ players play lol
that being said it's really not a good idea to go as the OP because in normal you can basically stomp with any carry....there is not counter based dota....people dont pick counters and/or dont build counter items
so you could say that normal/high skill is not the best representation of how dota should be played...that's why threads like these are basically useless
there is no real 'strategy' in normal skill...you pick pa/riki/ursa you win because people dont build and play strats like making a silver edge and mkb in a game with pa or just buying dust for riki games....or just picking ranged disabler heroes against ursa
we can have a thread everyday from a new guy from normal skill about how this carry and that is OP and asking why it isn't played more...next in queue is weaver probably
there's a reason for everything...dusa works in trench because almost everything works in trench that's it really
people in normal skill dont pick her for whatever reason....this really should be the end of this useless thread
I always thought dusa was good as a second carry just to allow the main one to do damage when ennemies are stoned or are running away from her ulti; or in some line up with lot of physical damage.
why wouldnt she work? what part of needs farm and items dont you get? i think it's been said at least by 5 different people
what part of she needs all of the jungle and will exhaust the other carry of any farm? atleast am can go and farm the enemy jungle if need be
i already told you there is no place for inefficient heroes in the pro scene and high skill....have you seen how short those games are? you need to break even atleast with the enemy to have a chance.....dusa doesn't come online till too late...the game could be well decided by then
all heroes are picked and not picked for a reason....you're not the first guy who's picked up a hero seen it's potential and then questioned the higher skilled guys....there are just better alternatives
maybe if and when you get there yourself you'll see
this thread is such a huge waste of time really...you asked your question we answered it....if you want to prove us wrong you're more than welcome to get to 5k and then show us your dusa games
until then stop trying to prolong this matter with non sense and blind enthusiasm unless you want to compete with that Ayy lmao thread in terms of long lasting shit
if you don't like our answer as i said show us yourself why she should be used in higher skill games
Well, I just figured out that IO has 38% winrate in -2k MMR, and 53% in 5k+ MMR. And the numbers diverge way more when you compare high level pubs to the actual competitive scene.
Guess what, dude. You are not, in fact, playing the same fucking game. You're playing a shitstain dogshit trash low level pub which higher level play and professional play has nothing to do with. You cannot understand why she's not as viable in higher skill games and professional play BECAUSE you do not understand that game, like at all. Imagine it's actually Starcraft, and not DotA 2, because what you play and what pros play has little to do with each other. You can't even get to play it because your skill level is so low. And you need to accept it. Just like all of us (who play shitstain dogshit trash low level pubs).
And this is coming from another Normal Skill player, you know why? Because I suck at the game kinda just as much as you do, and not only that, but I've seen fucking ANCIENTS MEDUSAS win the game because the other team can't fucking finish. You know when that's going to be viable in high level/pro play?
Yeah, ES goes from 41% to 57% and funnily has the second highest winrate in 5k+
And i have a sub 2k friend who spams ES and naturally has far negative winrate and KDA with him. Why even fucking bother if you're so shit? I play like shit buy also play easy heroes.
Medusa wins games either when you coordinate a well thought out 4p1 scenario in higher tier games, OR when you can AFK farm whole game without being disturbed at all because the other team (and you, and the rest of your team) are braindead. Like, the fact is that she out carries people with equal farm, but you are actually likely to get it. When I see a medusa in the other team I really hope she doesn't get fed because those people are shit at farming, so the only way to get online quickly is to get fed. And still rush fucking Linkens for some retarded reason. And when the medusa's on my team I REALLY hope there won't be 4 fucking cores.
I have showed you. At 30min she is viable in many situations. She can jungle/farm imo just as fast as most other "hard carries" and with her ult she alone can extend games to 45+. They start attacking tier 3? Throw ult and they wont get it. Hell youll even get afew kills which then inturn you can push.
And @Tekta yes I understand it is a different game, but say we dont understand? If we dont understand why even pay attention or watch pro? Damn im not a pro football player i dont understand football at all! See how absurd that really does sound? Yes things are different because there is actual cordiantion and such but it doesnt mean we dont fucking understand.
You haven't showed me your point, because you don't get it. Gyro can farm just as fast, but has, among other things, early killing potential. This is crucial. Luna can wreck people with JUST LEVELS. Like, she does not need fucking farm to go for a triple kill at lvl 6. Those heroes will fall off lategame, but they won't be useless for the good chunk of the midgame.
It is not about farming. It's about the idea you have in your head where you're fucking allowed to afk freefarm for some reason. You don't get that in high level/pro play. You fucking fight, farm and push. That's the meta. AM is actually a better fighter than Medusa, a fucking AM, dude. He's also more mobile, and does not depend on his team to go all 4p1.
"And @Tekta yes I understand it is a different game, but say we dont understand"
You don't understand it because you assume your role is to farm until you're like 4-6 slotted. It just does not happen. In pro play, AM will start jumping into fights once he gets 2 big items. He'll also start split pushing once he's got a battlefury, meanwhile also jungling. He can more reliably escape from ganks.
Medusa? What big items? Do you go defensive with something like a skadi, or build farming items? Or do you build damage items? You have shit mobility compared to antimage, your ult can easily be dodged, and you do not have the damage to actually kill people at this point, even if you build ONE damage item (in which case you will lack something else for a fight), and you have used your ult offensively, they can turn back to you and kill you.
I mean, in this meta, practically everyone and their dog builds fucking BoTs. When I play fucking trash commander I circumvent treads completely because soon enough I will need BoTs because the enemy trashchemist is going to get some and I need to kill him all the time.
The most popular carries are very mobile ones, or the ones who can farm so rapidly that they also get to contribute to fights, and have either good CC at low levels, or high nuke damage and mobility. Guess what Medusa has? Exactly zero of those things. There's fighting all around the game. Many games start with double kills because people go for the early aggression. The only reason I do understand those things is because I want to learn what good practice in a game/meta is all about. The only reason you do not understand those things is because you're stubborn and fall back to appeal to ignorance, as in "I do not understand why this is not viable, I feel it is, from my experience and theorycrafting, therefore it should be". You do not take any arguments, even from people who are obviously much better players from you, you do not take arguments from professional play, and you still spew out the same mantra.
Also, yes, she CAN be viable, under VERY specific circumstances. But she's not versatile at all. You can't randomly fit her in most drafts, where most popular carries are pretty versatile and cooperate with many different setups. Nobody's arguing that she's unplayable, but in this case, there's no discussion, because EVERY hero is viable under very specific circumstances.
nope when did i say farm to 4-6 slot... never jsut casual time wil get medusa what she needs. WHat makes you think you understand more than I i mean you too said you are a normal skill level. And so your answer is in fact with the current meta she is not viable which yes i can agree. BUT i also think she can change the meta and MAKE games extended. We arent arguing. You may be I am just having a conversation tryin to figure it out while youre being hostile. Nice approach though.
And yes i do feel medusa shuold be played more. Why the fuck would i make this if i didnt? I knew there would be other sides but Dire Wolf is seemingly the only one looking at it from the opposite angle of you so called "dota gods"
It's not the hero, it's itembuild.
You can buy something like MoM + Maelstorm on Medusa instead of Linken first item and have a big impact in teamfights at ~25 minutes mark.
What your saying is nonsense, I was playing a lot Death Prophet back when she was strong and before pro picked her every time in competitive games, when I created a thread here I was given the same comments as you post here. "DP won't work on top skilled games, too easily focused, there are heroes that do better than them....", then few weeks after dp was picked or banned in every competitive games and then everyone followed on public games.
You probably never played on normal skills to say all your nonsense, this is the place where it would be harder to farm for a medusa, you have no supports or they are half afk, to prevent you farming ennemies heroes are out of position in your jungle or diving you under t3 before mn 15 half of the time with no reaction from your team.
Several players with higher mmr than you have shown she can be useful in some lineup.
Like someone said if you build manta, linkens you can be 10-0 have it super fast and lose the game because you have no dammage.
@eazynogoud
i was not rding dbuff at that point, but afair dp came to meta bcz of patch changes, mostly indirect ones. b4 that she was objectively shit.
@I suck at Dota
what ppl at ur bracket think about boring/hard heroes may be different to what's going on in higher brackets. in top rated pubs, riki is definetely more interesting to play than duza (also meepo players are usually rather ls, sniper and drow are insanely hard to execute, etc.)
i dont wish to rise to anything just playin homie..i just think people have a bad thought about her because of late game but in my expirence, yes at sub 5k mmr, she alone can force games to go 40+ minutes
First of all she needs a lot of farm and second of all heroes like luna and gyrocopter can farm much faster than her.
how so?
The real answer is because she's boring as Scheiße.
"how so?"
Simple. Flak Cannon has no target cap, Luna hits harder without any farm than Medusa (good agi gain and passives help a ton here), and she's also way more mobile and can farm heroes as well. Also much more independent and can lane on her own so she gets those levels faster.
Normal skill player here i think its just due to the meta high skill see what pros pick so copy them, friends with lower skill copy them and goes down to us at normal skill too.
Gyro doesn't farm faster imo, maybe if you get supports to triple stack for you. Both farm super fast. Luna farms a tad quicker but it really doesn't matter cus all three are capable of clearing jungle and a lane every minute anyway which is the most farm you'll get without stacks or teleporting to new lanes. Your farm is more limited by movement speed than dps. Luna does have best move speed.
But they're all very different heroes. Luna mid game is easily countered by bkb before she has enough right click and depends on ult. Gyro has shit range so he can die in team fights easily if not careful though of course flak has awesome range. But neither can touch medusa in terms of tank. Gyro and Luna both depend on high dmg = high lifesteal. Medusa doesn't she has massive ehp. They function very differently. Gyros probably best if you want to fight at 20 mins, Luna if you have a push team and medusa if you have protection and can take game super late.
This is all good info thank you I just stil get a vibe that people dont want to say medusa is good. Other than Dire Wolf here but still great info thank youall
I'm telling you I love playing medusa and I love playing against her cus at 30 mins all they have is linkens. That's why most people hate her cus people farm so slow on her. Plus in general normal skill doesn't know how to farm. I have to find the match but my team started like 10-2 and gave medusa 30 mins of free farm and she didn't even have skadi. Like had no clue where to go find creeps.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1860884242
This is it. Ridiculous I had more cs and gpm on a fucking viper. 63 minute game medusa not even 6 slotted. Not even 5 slotted still has tp and Aquila.
Oh and they picked am to counter medusa and he had nearly double her cs and we still won.
I know maybe we are biased because we like her idk but she seems very viable in a multitude of situations and games
Most people are going for super useless builds on dusa.
She is tanky by nature thanks to mana shield, yet people rush for linkens skadi while she doesnt need that... whats the point in surviving all shit while your team goes down and you do zero dmg? best dusa build for early game ownage and 30-40min gg no re:
phase boots maelstorm mom dagger. you jump into 5 with dagger, use your ultimate, pop mom and just go wild with your splitshot.
Unless your team is total retard, you can win every fight like that.
Enemy is forced to either split up/look away to avoid your ulti or they try to kill you despite ulti and get rekt by your autoattack enhanced by mom and maelstorm. Now if your team also does a little bit its an ez win.
medusa is really good . ppl go spec against ursa sven? what? you naive prick get that ez dusa farm. dusa can farm cuz shes RANGED. and her snake own the shit out of everything now. her ulti is op too. not in 6k but in most pub games you can win ez with a duda. she farm pretty fast at 25 min shes alrdy hard to kill. yea medusa is boring but ez mmr
get a wr off against spec safelane. gg. get a dusa safelane against wr. ez.
She needs a shit ton of farm. Off the top of my head, Phase Boots/Skadi/Butterfly/MKB minimum.
skadi and butterfly and mkb are not needed lol
i can do just fine with treads, manta, and linkens
butterfly and skadi are just added bonuses
I Suck At Dota ^ you shouldnt talk you suck at dota xd
please stop making analyses when you're normal skill
stop
making
analyses
when
you're
normal
skill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY7qOwaZEqw
' and why cant you gank with medusa? ' - well, let's say you try to gank a lane. You show up you throw your snakes => enemy just runs away and laughs. Awesome ganks you got going there. Dude Dusa has no lockdown and no mobility., WTf makes you think she is a viable ganker? Point being ofc she can try and gank, but if your opp's are not braindead it won't do shit.
yes cus only vhs people deserve to play dota and make strategic hero picks of course.
We are almost all normal/high skill so why wouldn't we offer each other fucking advice? In many ways our perspective is better than yours cus we know the shit we deal with in our bracket, you don't. You aren't going to take meepos or earth spirits and win in normal skill. You can easily win with medusa.
You're a fucking douche with a dumbass face.
the only dota that really exists is the dota that the 5k+ players play lol
that being said it's really not a good idea to go as the OP because in normal you can basically stomp with any carry....there is not counter based dota....people dont pick counters and/or dont build counter items
so you could say that normal/high skill is not the best representation of how dota should be played...that's why threads like these are basically useless
there is no real 'strategy' in normal skill...you pick pa/riki/ursa you win because people dont build and play strats like making a silver edge and mkb in a game with pa or just buying dust for riki games....or just picking ranged disabler heroes against ursa
we can have a thread everyday from a new guy from normal skill about how this carry and that is OP and asking why it isn't played more...next in queue is weaver probably
there's a reason for everything...dusa works in trench because almost everything works in trench that's it really
people in normal skill dont pick her for whatever reason....this really should be the end of this useless thread
But that is what i am saying Retard Magnet why wouldnt Medusa work in a higher skill? I see no reason she couldnt othe than the current meta
I always thought dusa was good as a second carry just to allow the main one to do damage when ennemies are stoned or are running away from her ulti; or in some line up with lot of physical damage.
And @Arin so in the dota only pepople 5k and up can think about how they are playing? That is such an ignorant comment. People like you ruin games
Because why shouldnt people higher mmr than you say the same to you?
why wouldnt she work? what part of needs farm and items dont you get? i think it's been said at least by 5 different people
what part of she needs all of the jungle and will exhaust the other carry of any farm? atleast am can go and farm the enemy jungle if need be
i already told you there is no place for inefficient heroes in the pro scene and high skill....have you seen how short those games are? you need to break even atleast with the enemy to have a chance.....dusa doesn't come online till too late...the game could be well decided by then
all heroes are picked and not picked for a reason....you're not the first guy who's picked up a hero seen it's potential and then questioned the higher skilled guys....there are just better alternatives
maybe if and when you get there yourself you'll see
this thread is such a huge waste of time really...you asked your question we answered it....if you want to prove us wrong you're more than welcome to get to 5k and then show us your dusa games
until then stop trying to prolong this matter with non sense and blind enthusiasm unless you want to compete with that Ayy lmao thread in terms of long lasting shit
if you don't like our answer as i said show us yourself why she should be used in higher skill games
Well, I just figured out that IO has 38% winrate in -2k MMR, and 53% in 5k+ MMR. And the numbers diverge way more when you compare high level pubs to the actual competitive scene.
Guess what, dude. You are not, in fact, playing the same fucking game. You're playing a shitstain dogshit trash low level pub which higher level play and professional play has nothing to do with. You cannot understand why she's not as viable in higher skill games and professional play BECAUSE you do not understand that game, like at all. Imagine it's actually Starcraft, and not DotA 2, because what you play and what pros play has little to do with each other. You can't even get to play it because your skill level is so low. And you need to accept it. Just like all of us (who play shitstain dogshit trash low level pubs).
And this is coming from another Normal Skill player, you know why? Because I suck at the game kinda just as much as you do, and not only that, but I've seen fucking ANCIENTS MEDUSAS win the game because the other team can't fucking finish. You know when that's going to be viable in high level/pro play?
The winrate thing spikes a lot with earth spirit as well.
Yeah, ES goes from 41% to 57% and funnily has the second highest winrate in 5k+
And i have a sub 2k friend who spams ES and naturally has far negative winrate and KDA with him. Why even fucking bother if you're so shit? I play like shit buy also play easy heroes.
Medusa wins games either when you coordinate a well thought out 4p1 scenario in higher tier games, OR when you can AFK farm whole game without being disturbed at all because the other team (and you, and the rest of your team) are braindead. Like, the fact is that she out carries people with equal farm, but you are actually likely to get it. When I see a medusa in the other team I really hope she doesn't get fed because those people are shit at farming, so the only way to get online quickly is to get fed. And still rush fucking Linkens for some retarded reason. And when the medusa's on my team I REALLY hope there won't be 4 fucking cores.
I have showed you. At 30min she is viable in many situations. She can jungle/farm imo just as fast as most other "hard carries" and with her ult she alone can extend games to 45+. They start attacking tier 3? Throw ult and they wont get it. Hell youll even get afew kills which then inturn you can push.
And @Tekta yes I understand it is a different game, but say we dont understand? If we dont understand why even pay attention or watch pro? Damn im not a pro football player i dont understand football at all! See how absurd that really does sound? Yes things are different because there is actual cordiantion and such but it doesnt mean we dont fucking understand.
And the fact that som epeople of 5k mmr agree she can be viable is why i am still here talking about it.
And es is also one of the most played heroes
You haven't showed me your point, because you don't get it. Gyro can farm just as fast, but has, among other things, early killing potential. This is crucial. Luna can wreck people with JUST LEVELS. Like, she does not need fucking farm to go for a triple kill at lvl 6. Those heroes will fall off lategame, but they won't be useless for the good chunk of the midgame.
It is not about farming. It's about the idea you have in your head where you're fucking allowed to afk freefarm for some reason. You don't get that in high level/pro play. You fucking fight, farm and push. That's the meta. AM is actually a better fighter than Medusa, a fucking AM, dude. He's also more mobile, and does not depend on his team to go all 4p1.
"And @Tekta yes I understand it is a different game, but say we dont understand"
You don't understand it because you assume your role is to farm until you're like 4-6 slotted. It just does not happen. In pro play, AM will start jumping into fights once he gets 2 big items. He'll also start split pushing once he's got a battlefury, meanwhile also jungling. He can more reliably escape from ganks.
Medusa? What big items? Do you go defensive with something like a skadi, or build farming items? Or do you build damage items? You have shit mobility compared to antimage, your ult can easily be dodged, and you do not have the damage to actually kill people at this point, even if you build ONE damage item (in which case you will lack something else for a fight), and you have used your ult offensively, they can turn back to you and kill you.
I mean, in this meta, practically everyone and their dog builds fucking BoTs. When I play fucking trash commander I circumvent treads completely because soon enough I will need BoTs because the enemy trashchemist is going to get some and I need to kill him all the time.
The most popular carries are very mobile ones, or the ones who can farm so rapidly that they also get to contribute to fights, and have either good CC at low levels, or high nuke damage and mobility. Guess what Medusa has? Exactly zero of those things. There's fighting all around the game. Many games start with double kills because people go for the early aggression. The only reason I do understand those things is because I want to learn what good practice in a game/meta is all about. The only reason you do not understand those things is because you're stubborn and fall back to appeal to ignorance, as in "I do not understand why this is not viable, I feel it is, from my experience and theorycrafting, therefore it should be". You do not take any arguments, even from people who are obviously much better players from you, you do not take arguments from professional play, and you still spew out the same mantra.
Also, yes, she CAN be viable, under VERY specific circumstances. But she's not versatile at all. You can't randomly fit her in most drafts, where most popular carries are pretty versatile and cooperate with many different setups. Nobody's arguing that she's unplayable, but in this case, there's no discussion, because EVERY hero is viable under very specific circumstances.
nope when did i say farm to 4-6 slot... never jsut casual time wil get medusa what she needs. WHat makes you think you understand more than I i mean you too said you are a normal skill level. And so your answer is in fact with the current meta she is not viable which yes i can agree. BUT i also think she can change the meta and MAKE games extended. We arent arguing. You may be I am just having a conversation tryin to figure it out while youre being hostile. Nice approach though.
And yes i do feel medusa shuold be played more. Why the fuck would i make this if i didnt? I knew there would be other sides but Dire Wolf is seemingly the only one looking at it from the opposite angle of you so called "dota gods"
And so AM can be fine to farm but a farming medusaa? nah that cant happen!
And on your viability comment I believe she is much more viable than people would say at first glance
There's an "Edit" option...
And my opinion is still that, viable or not, she's one of the most braindead boring heroes to play in the game.
But you think riki is fun?
Why would i edit you understand everything i said
It's not the hero, it's itembuild.
You can buy something like MoM + Maelstorm on Medusa instead of Linken first item and have a big impact in teamfights at ~25 minutes mark.
@Retard Magnet
What your saying is nonsense, I was playing a lot Death Prophet back when she was strong and before pro picked her every time in competitive games, when I created a thread here I was given the same comments as you post here. "DP won't work on top skilled games, too easily focused, there are heroes that do better than them....", then few weeks after dp was picked or banned in every competitive games and then everyone followed on public games.
You probably never played on normal skills to say all your nonsense, this is the place where it would be harder to farm for a medusa, you have no supports or they are half afk, to prevent you farming ennemies heroes are out of position in your jungle or diving you under t3 before mn 15 half of the time with no reaction from your team.
Several players with higher mmr than you have shown she can be useful in some lineup.
Like someone said if you build manta, linkens you can be 10-0 have it super fast and lose the game because you have no dammage.
Thank you both for showinf the other side of it
And yes as i said in the meta it is a little tougher but def a viable option
@eazynogoud
i was not rding dbuff at that point, but afair dp came to meta bcz of patch changes, mostly indirect ones. b4 that she was objectively shit.
@I suck at Dota
what ppl at ur bracket think about boring/hard heroes may be different to what's going on in higher brackets. in top rated pubs, riki is definetely more interesting to play than duza (also meepo players are usually rather ls, sniper and drow are insanely hard to execute, etc.)
well yes even at this level sniper honestly isnt the easiest