don't jungle with those heroes. play them offlane, and if you are getting wrecking in lane, kill the jungle camp at your secret shop.
if you are playing jungle because you think its better farm, you need to work on last hitting and laning a bit.
if you want to jungle, enigma is a good one for beginners.
Another note..
Heroes that can spawn minions like NP I don't consider here. Just solo hero like Ursa.
I consider picking jungling or play the hero jungle because opponent has a jungler too...or because I can have solo XP and one of my team has solo XP against dual lane. Is this the right mindset?
Think about this.
You pick jungle hero, this means your team will only have 1 hero in the offlane, which wouldn't be bad.. But you also only have 1 support which has to secure his carry farm.. Instead of 2 supports playing the roles of securing their carry farm, and one or maybe even both supports going around the map to gank and win lanes for their team
Enemy safe lane carry gets almost guaranteed free farm if he has 1-2 supports making sure he gets farm and zoning ur offlaner.
Basically if u pick jungler and enemy picks heroes who need farm , u practically lost already because enemy carry will get farm and kill you, your teammates very likely to lose lane.. Etc
Now in normal skill , people will miss last hits, die too much,not play very well, so u might be able to get away with it, or if ur a very good player u can jungle I'm sure.
But just telling u general things to think about when deciding if u want to jungle.. Very bad idea to jungle if enemy has spectre or Sven or morphling or PA or any carry is getting free farm cuz that is scary for ur team ones he comes online .
TLDR: Be careful with jungling cuz it forces ur team to play 4v5 and pretty much allows enemies to farm uncontested.
In SEA or any other games I don't know if ppl know the concept of trilane or relationship between supp or carry... Supps do TAKE farm from carry...well this is normal skill SEA...
Unlike watching youtubers from EU 5k MMR who knows what they're doing... so jealous man...it's different here man... well, of course thats one of the reason I wanna play jungle too.
yeah but my supp do compete with my last hits. That's bad.
or another scenario...almost always 4 core heroes with 1 supp...what can I do dude? 2 cores in offlane?
of course you adapt if you have offlaner with good escape mechanism on him.
I will play uneanked first of cos so I knew that when to or not to pick
Please don´t play jungle in trash tier (1-2K). You will no get any advantage and force team to play 4v5. If opponent team are playing well like a team, game is lost. I had many experiences with Doom or LC farming 15-20 min forest with 350 gpm what opponent team easily get because they had free farm. The worst thing that bad guys don´t know that jungle hero can also gank enemy offlane heroes or mid.
These games can be very frustrating also if you win mid...you still lose, because both lanes are raped so hard and you don´t have an advantage.
Please guys don't tell me not to jungle. I opened this thread to teach me how to jungle...Not not to jungle. Of course I can switch from jungle to lane immediately? I also watch if my team is good or not. I'm a noob but it doesn't mean I couldn't think.
Well said @Defiance
U must kno if ur one of the lane is getting weak u must not jungle ! U should decide wisely when to jungle and when to not , good jungling heroes are axe, enchan , lifestealer, ( invo too if u kno how to ) , ursa !
Well said @Defiance
U must kno if ur one of the lane is getting weak u must not jungle ! U should decide wisely when to jungle and when to not , good jungling heroes are axe, enchan , lifestealer, ( invo too if u kno how to ) , ursa !
in theory jungle is fine, but it really seems like a bad setup in dota. I'm new (from hon), and it is amazing how much less the jungle is utilised. Still trying to pin down why.
In hon, jungling was a reaction to strong dual offlaners. People would run Tri lanes to help secure farm on a carry with weak lane presence, but eventually realised that it was more efficent to have the 2nd support play jungle. They could still pressure the lane, but could get good farm in the meantime. Overall it was optimal. A LOT of issues in the current hon meta have stemmed from this (which I won't go I into here).
the jungle heroes in dota seem to have substantially less lane prescence (when jungled) Honestly not sure why this is, but it seems to be true.
As a side point, if you do have a jungler, I find solo offlane incredibly easy in this game. Even in vhs, people can't zone you effectively. They will take creep agro harassing you giving you perfect lane position by the 2nd or 3rd creep wave.
learn real junglers.
enigma chen enchantress
if u want to, i can offer alot of advise for these heros. BEFORE jungle change my enigma jungle was just as quick as Auis, now its not that good anymore
learn to use some choke points
if u go iron talon, the most efficient build is start with talon, send stout via courier, then suicide (or the reverse) IMO
take note of where enemy support/mids are, lots of times its safe to kill /stack the medium camp and secure the rune (dire jungle top, radiant jungle bot)
U play in Aussie dude, my ping not enough...do u guys have health longetivity issues? Thats my problem
Obviously no one wants you to do it. But if you jungle with non-minion summoning heroes, they rely on lifesteal. You will likely need that item/ ability very early. For hero's like Ursa (who aren't really built for jungling), they need alot of health regin to start out until they get the lifesteal. Finally be sure to walk the creeps out and only hit them on the way back. Thus will slow your farm, but maintain your health better.
This advice is very basic, but no one has even given advice for your scenario yet.
In the 4 core scenario. I would still recommend asking them to let you farm in lane until you get your morbid mask, then moving to the jungle. Or possibly picking up a bottle and Midas, to fit into more of a roaming role.
Don't play bloodseeker he sucks, and ignore the guy who said enigma is good for beginners.
Get shield salve and 8 tango as ursa, jungle, and go at rosh at lvl 4 with morbid, u will have like 5 min lvl8, aegis, and u can just go wreck some shit.
My winrate with bloodseeker is like 27%. Most of them are panic jungle pics because I'm losing gold for not choosing. He is not very good at all in the jungle, he is not very good at all in the game at all anymore to be honest. So you can scratch bloodseeker, he needs to come online very early with kills to snowball and if he doesnt the enemy will complete take a big dump in your mouth until the game ends.
Ursa is great in lane, just get a support with slow or stun and its pretty much freekills if the enemy offlaner is not WR or something.
LC is fast in the jungle and if you can snowball with early duels and ganks from jungle shes pretty good hero tbh but still a little gay because it sucks to get dueled by a woman and sunstrike by a dragqueen that is picked every other game.
I'm not sure whether it is better to go tangoes stout and ring of protection or tangoes 2 mangoes and ring of protection for ursa.
Wraith king is good in jungle. I like to go iron talon and stout shield. If ur teammates let u get first rune u will have an great time if enemy doesn't gank you.
Put points into life steal and crit as you see fit so you can farm jungle.
Everything 325656 said in his post is spot on. He is very high skill and you are normal. If you really want to jungle try Axe and gank at level 2. Anything else is a burden
quelling blade bonus damage doesn't work on fury swipes bonus damage and because of fury swipes damage increasing per hit it probably only saves you like 2 attacks if used on full HP neutrals, whereas 40% of a neutral's max HP could be like 6 attacks for other heroes. you'd probably be better with more regen so that you can stay long enough to get morbid mask before suiciding rather than having to go back to base, but I could be wrong about that.
imo good junglers are able to do stuff once they get key levels or items. a wraith king once he gets 6 isn't really that threatening compared to like a legion rushing blink and duelling people, ursa can safely take roshan at like level 5, NP can gank with teleport and then push towers, doom can gank with doom, et cetera, plus the 'classic' junglers like enigma and chen pushing once they get their meks.
.... My advice : Never go jungle unless you're enigma/enchantress/chen who can actually take advantage of it in some ways.The rest are better off in the offlane, ursa in safe. Stack your jungles and farm them later, it's much more efficient.
if you're talking to me, I didn't list every jungler. while BM could start off in the jungle at level 1, it's more of a fallback if your laning phase doesn't go so well.
BMs usually rotate from offlane to the offlane hard camp when the lane's too far up, rather starting than the main jungle seeing as the boar does piercing damage (bonus damage to creeps) and BM has really high base damage and a good attack animation it's not too hard to get farm when the opportunity does arise in the offlane.
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Yeah so I wanna learn jungling heroes such like LC and Ursa, Bloodseeker too. I am bad at jungling. Sure I have read guides about camps and cut trees but I dunno.
I always have anxiety on low health being ganked and all that stuff y know...
Can I have some reference of videos from pros?