General Discussion

General DiscussionI need help with supporting, in general

I need help with supporting, in general in General Discussion
Nile

    In my recent 50 game, I have 11 losses, I played support in 9 of my lost games, I only lost 2 games as carry. Now I just began to wonder, am I a bad support? if so, how do I improve? (Side note: Most of my games are between 3k to 3.5k)

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    Follow @jabawobski

      dont give up

      Nile

        Don't give up supporting?
        Obviously I won't, otherwise why would I post this?

        fx

          Carry is stupid when u are playing support

          H^

            If you've played carry the whole time and you're trying to learn support now it's waste tbh, you kinda know how to play carry you went 37-2 L/W when playing carry. Let's start off it's normal skill in the first place and second if you went 37-2 as carry you're probably better than the current rating you're at, when you play support there's a big chance you have a carry that is at it's true mmr, that's why you're losing, maybe you are a bad support yes but your carry player isn't good either, if you want to climb you have to take the game in your own hands and hope valve gives you decent teammates and gives the enemy more retards than your team.

            Just play carry, unless you really want to learn support then go ahead.

            _kuhaku_

              Coming from a support player(me) here are a few tips, buy cour. Make it fly, constantly ward and deward buy healing item like mech. And pipe buy buffing items like drums in terms of gameplay alway focus on your carry on healing, in lane zone out the enemy carry and try to deny creeps... i think thats all the basic things you need to learn in terms of supporting. Hope this helps :)

              Cheap Laugh Guy

                Did you try watching some guides in youtube? They're all pretty general and can totally be easier to understand than reading bunch of text.

                inst:  MissMissclick

                  it's quite easy to spot a bad 3k support player. do u deward at all?

                  are u playing like a carry? always on the other side of the map away from the action?

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                  Nile

                    I struggle a lot against invis heroes when I play support, I buy smoke dust wards and sentrys just like a good support would, but every fight, I was the only one who was carrying detection, when we are trying to push, I was the one who's trying to put wards and sentrys down in the front line to make sure my carry is safe, and turns out I always get picked off at first, should I be doing so? So should I just stay back and let my carry run in?

                    Nile

                      Also I have some trouble for dewarding, but I always put sentrys down, before putting observers wards

                      Nile

                        http://imgur.com/ozbpdi5
                        This is my sentry and ward map, it doesn't really prove anything, I still need advice from your support players.

                        claviculaRIS

                          For me, try not to warding in usual spot (i mean, in the eyes spot in map) try to ward close from that spot, so you can see if enemy comes and placing ward on that spot.
                          Hope this helps.

                          claviculaRIS

                            One more thing about dewarding. Please, always checking enemy inventory, so you know if enemy is carrying ward.
                            Also about supporting heroes, i by myself prefer to pick support heroes that still have impact, even when late game comes(i.e: Silencer, i really love this hero)

                            Jacked

                              Yes being good at dewarding u have to think differently than normal. U gotta watch the support movements a lot and try n think where they have vision. These kinds of things are game deciding. Dying when trying to deward is a big no no. It means u don't have the basics of warding down yet.

                              Also, nothin wrong w being the only one carrying wards dust. Although sometimes u need more than one dust carrier. Always put sentries down where u think invis hero is going to come from the back lines. Don't just carry dust and think u are fine.

                              Celine

                                Positioning is the hardest thing for a support to learn imo
                                Alot of supports including me gets caught offguard alot of times, or was too far from teamfights

                                Jacked

                                  Also know when to tactical feed and when not to bait your entire team to their deaths. Lul

                                  Relentless

                                    In a 3k MMR game your team will be too slow to react to help the support hero. You have to assume they will fail to notice you dieing next to them, especially if you are behind them.

                                    Against invis heroes you have to anticipate their attack and place the sentries where they will be before they get there. Then you cast a stun or slow on them first, that is what will make your team notice them. You also need to use fog and think about what the enemy can see. This includes the invis heroes probably stalking you. If you move in and out of fog 3k invis heroes will lose track of you and get confused.

                                    So when you are pushing, don't just stand in the lane hitting creeps. If you have wave clear get it done and get back into fog as soon as possible. When you expect a teamfight, be in fog near your team instead of in the open near your team. When roaming, roam like riki or clinkz is following you. Practice moving in fog all the time. Your ganks will be more successful and you will get picked off less. When you are going to shop, check the other lane, drop items, waiting for a rune, waiting to pull, etc always be in fog. Just not being on the mini-map alone will hurt the enemies farm and mess with their minds making them play more defensively and miss more lasthits because they are afraid of a gank.

                                    Dewards succeed when you see the enemy wards placed. Nothing else is more important to finding them. Then you need to choose the right time to deward - a time when you know you can either kill the enemy support or they can't get there to stop you. You see the enemy wards placed by paying attention to their inventories and timing. Find out who is warding and check their inventory whenever you see them. Even if you can't see them actually place the ward you will know where it is based on when it disappears from inventory and where they walked recently near ward spots. Early game when it's more important I often drop wards in the jungle somewhere just to screw with supports, then pick them up and place later so the deward fails. Good support players watch inventories for wards.

                                    I learned this a long time ago, back in dota 1 when I played a game against Aui_2000 and he kept killing all of my wards. So I watched the replay to see how he did it. You have to pay attention to what the enemy supports are doing to win the ward battle.

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                                    Lunatic

                                      looking at ur profile i would say you shouldnt play pos 5 heroes (lion,ss,sd).. because if your carry is shit then you really cant do anything..
                                      i would suggest to play pos 4 heroes like phoenix,earth spirit, or even kunkka (transition late game into carry) so that you can do something even if your carry is not doing well

                                      Jacked

                                        And if u don't buy utility items. U r not really supporting. Nothing worse than the pos 5 going point booster brown boots trying to farm aghs. Nothing worse than that. And also what relentless said.

                                        Nile

                                          Thank you relentless, that helped a lot. I'm so used to play carry and run in the front line know that my team's got my back.

                                          MRAZ'

                                            noone summons mekarazium, rofl.

                                            ☯SnortEverything☯

                                              what hasn't been said is that sometimes you're better off not dewarding, rather, simply letting your team know there is a ward in that area. then smoke through it. if your team is that coordinated in a solo game then warding for the sake of keeping the map lit won't be as beneficial as saving the wards to place during teamfight, in anticipation of one, or during the initial retreat into a fogged chokepoint. this depends on the flow of the game ofc, but just a different way to approach warding if you get the feeling that your team can visualize enemy movements well enough.

                                              don't shy away from buying an early gem if you can get away with it or if your lineup is dependent upon map control. keep an empty chicken nearby going into teamfights to pick it up in case it is lost or work on stashing it in trees before showing in lane.

                                              have a hotkey for scan. i use alt-s. it can be helpful (especially vs nyx since the invis gank timing is more predictable) to scan on top of heroes to reveal invis before you drop a ward or dust, just to be more thorough.

                                              casual gamer

                                                go look at a pro player support and do what they do

                                                do ur best to zone the offlaner in the early game and stack pull for farm

                                                if u have trilane u can smoke mid, kill their hero especially with a dd or haste

                                                in lategame u have to hide until fight and only come out when they blow their initiation essentially, unless ur playing abaddon or some shit. ur goal is to have ur carries tank the brunt of the initiation and then u save them by rolling in with ur op spells and owning everyone

                                                but u have to be holding tp and looking at the map because u can make a huge impact on the game early on, especially if u have teammates FV/BM/LC/NS or similar long disable and gank type heroes

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                                                Nile

                                                  You guys are much better than those cringy pro-players on game-leap

                                                  Awakened

                                                    3-4k games are usually very slow pace due to the efficiency of the players. As a supp, you need to open ur mic and command them.

                                                    Nile

                                                      I do that every game, my average game duration is 41 min which is sightly below average.