Vertoxity, I feel a trend here...
Starts with Invoker, then Meepo, and now Slark. Next it will be AM then PA, then Sniper.
WARNING: NORMAL SKILL NEWB - however I watch tons of pro games and kind of understand why you get these items and whether or not they are still viable.
Aquila + tread switching gives more mana = more dark pacts = more farm.
Iran talon is pretty self explanatory. Worth the extra gold for the little bit of armor + attack damage + cut creep.
Raindrops are situational - and I would maybe just get the Ring of Basillius and stop there.
Those people who tell you to skip those items are the same retards who go BF very first item on AM.
Now a bonus question for the ones capable of wasting more than a few secs on me:
Did I farm here good? https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2997770270
How could I won this game? https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2996810042
And this game : https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2996856225
Game 1: my opinion: I failed a few pounces and I didn't try to cordinate with my team. Maybe if I pounced better and killed Necro when I had a chance, game could've been easier. Note that I was offlane Slark with Rubick, PL got raped by Necro and he had @ 19 min Veil/Radiance
Game 2: my opinion: I farmed poorly, we had a bad lategame lineup. I tried to tell my team to push, but SF went AFK farm with midas. A few bad ganks happened by me, and I started deleying my next items more and more, despite the fact I had a free farm and a decent timings with my core items. Eventually their team catched up and had a better late resulting in us losing..
Thanks for your time guys
Those people are way better than you and me, coinsidering the fact they sit in upper 5k bracket.
Slark is my old hero and I'm just trying to get even better at it. Lately I've been busy trying to get my Dota on next level and finally hit that 4.5k I wanted for so long.
But since I struggle still in 3.9-4k bracket... xD
Gotta get good.
Game 1: Farm was probably optimal for the amount of pushing your team was doing. Try last hitting those towers as often as possible when you have that advantage. I hear that slark can farm almost as fast as AM, so by 25 minutes I think optimal last hits looks like 250+-50.
Game 2: Iron talon timing was kinda pathetic. If you get iron talon at all, get it early so you can farm big creeps = 70some gold. Learn to dark pact to better increase your survivability. You team didn't have a reliable stun so you might have considered basher instead of diffusal and before BKB. Also looked like it was more of Rubicks fault for not being a great pick + his positioning looked like it needs help.
Game 3: What happened between 18 minutes and 30? If your SB was before Echo- the echo timing was decent. Hard to win games when you are directly countered + your roaming ES feeds. Farm looks a little shabby. I dunno about VHS games, but in Normal Skill after SB you can usually just find their rubick and kill him 3/4 times to get better farm. Try timing your dark pact better as well.
you don't pick slark to farm with it, you pick it so u can give ur enemy worst possible cancer, by killing them over and over again while being super fucking annoying, cuz ur very hard to kill.
"but in Normal Skill after SB you can usually just find their rubick and kill him 3/4 times to get better farm. Try timing your dark pact better as well."
After 3.8kish it gets a bit harder(at least for me), since they stick to their team and aren't as often out of position as 1k and 2ks.
Especially coinsidering that even killing a Rubick isn't ideal if you'll be punished heavily for it.
" I hear that slark can farm almost as fast as AM, so by 25 minutes I think optimal last hits looks like 250+-50."
Yeah, he can farm fast, but he's an early game monster, no need for that all the time.
"Learn to dark pact to better increase your survivability."
Am I missing something? What you mean?
Dark Pact purges stuns + other things. One of my friends can't time Dark Pact well at all and so he feeds so much.
Slark is literally ALL about anticipating their moves. You can Dark Pact out of SS leash, euls, rubick's lift, so many other things in those games.
You want to start it when their cast animation has started. For example, CW has a pitifully slow Animation for his stun. Click your dark pact when he starts his stun animation - not when you initiate on him.
After 3.8kish it gets a bit harder(at least for me), since they stick to their team and aren't as often out of position as 1k and 2ks.
It's not so much different tbh, it's still very easy to go and kill someone even if they stay as 5, their positioning is fucking awful every game. Ofc there are some combination of heroes where u can't really do that, let's say if they have void + something something that can fuck u up really hard, but I'm sure nobody is picking that shit in pubs nowadays, so u can do w/e u want even if they 5 man, you just need to itemize well, so u won't get punished for it.
Again, in VHS players actually cancel actions so they can fool you into dark pacting, but in NS - if you know how dark pact works and have the reflexes to pull them off - and know their animations, you will be the slippery cancerous hero you are supposed to be.
talon is pretty much the fastest you can farm on slark, aquila is amazing for the stats so you fight stronger.
@ sNU
Dude, after 400+ games with Slark I think I've learned the basics with it. If I wasn't trying so hard to work on my shitty attidude now, I'd get mad at you for acting like an ass. :p
Just kidding ,but it kinda triggers me when people are trying to teach me tha basics. I'm a scrub, but I'm not that bad..
@ Affect
Explain how do I engage as Slark when enemy team is pushing hard as fuck with Necro, Drow, Storm, Tree and Nyx, my team is literally dying over and over again, and I'm the only one with at least some farm.
Do I wait for them to die, and pick off the lowest HP target? Because if thats the plan, I'll get punished by killing Drow, for example.
It doesn't help at all saying things that doesn't come with some sort of exponation, since I clearly see the difference in skill between 3000 and 3800 MMR when it comes to picking off people.
I didn't mean to act like an ass - you just asked me what I meant by work on Dark Pact timing.
Practice it - watch heroes animations and memorize that shit. TBH, for me, playing slark is about intuition more than anything else.
I assume nothing. Assuming makes an ASS out of U and ME.
LUL if I didnt fuck up and now that I know what I would do different I think I could hit 300cs @18 mins with slark. I blame 1st game of the day and inactivity this patch for this shitty result :d
It depends on how far behind/ahead u are and @ what time they are pushing and how well u and ur team did in the early/mid game and it depends on which hero I would go, depending on which spells they've already used, how much mana/hp and their positioning, it's just too many "depends", there's no clear way of saying what would u do, so many things could happen it depends what heroes ur team has.
is this guy serious thinking people don't know how dark pact works.
everyone fucking knows that dark pact removes disables. so when a slark goes on you, you're not going to stun him as soon as he jumps you because he's probably dark pacted, you're going to wait until dark pact is over. with this information as the slark player, holding off on dark pact means you can continue to right click while the enemy can't do anything to stop you if they don't have multiple disables - one to force out dark pact and one after it - if the opponent has one disable then they *need* to wait for you to use it before they can use their own.
so if you don't dark pact at all, then they can't use their disable either and you just right click them to death. obviously you still need it for extra damage, so if you hold off for a few seconds so your pounce can come off cooldown (or near it), you can pounce as soon as dark pact ends so that even if you get stunned, the enemy probaly will still be leashed when their stun ends so you can keep chasing them.
if you blow dark pact and pounce as soon as you jump on someone and then they disable you, then the only thing you've got to get back in range to keep hitting them is ulting for movement speed if they're faster than you.
TL;DR stagger your ability uses so that there's no opportunity where your opponent can disable you and then get away.
Just asking, shouldnt you not always go quelling in starting items and instead bring extra regen or stats cuz u can buy it in the side shop? I guess it doesnt just apply to slark.
^And who are you Sir, to answer this topic? I hope not a normal skill player, because that would be ridiculous...
I just basically said the exact same thing as Androgynous, just surprised that the OP asked me what I meant when I said to "learn to dark pact better to increase survivability."
And not just that, but ganking like Andro said.
talon pms always worth, maybe v low % of games you skip pms for just stout
im not an aquila fan but its good, very good if you have no other basi guy on ur team obviously because the patch is about pushing.
u want sb at like 11-13 min with treads and talon. aquila delays that a little and if you really want to u can go echo first if u know u wont get pickoffs (enemy clumping). talons core fuck the haters it makes lg camps 9x easier to take and speeds ur movement around the map
my start item is always something like: stout tango tango slipper
or stout tango tango -> buy qb from side shop because im bad at cs
sometimes u can get fast oov and rape heroes at lvl 2 sometimes u just get fast boots from ss after stout sometimes u go pms from ss before qb or vice versa its all situational general carry shit
ur trading ability with passive is ridiculous. u can outright kill a ton of heroes if they try to man up and at lvl 2 u have insane disable in a 2v1 or 3v1
ok ur questions
1: good but not amazing cs total because u were killing people and ended the game instead of afk ricing
2: i wouldve donethis: upgrade shadow -> echo -> diffu -> disamble silver edge into manta -> make another silver edge -> abysal. maybe a casual hood (the 2k cost one) because they are all magic and its a compelte counter. i think bkb slark sucks in terms of functionality and winrate but its good that game, just i dont think its a game winning item ever (look at me im retarded haha)
in that game ur cs totals fuckign awful. 6/min is a joke almsot in a slow even game you edge out the enemy by outfarming them. a hero like drow dies instantly if she comes within 3000 units of u and yiou should not have let her keep up with u either farm aggressively when storm shows on the map (their jungle or whatever) or go pick her or somethign u need mroe cs
game 3 once against u buy this bkb stop getting bkb on slark goodness it does nothing t ostop magnus and i doubt ur fast enough to stop the point blank storm hammer and anyway he can chain it after rp. u lose this game because ur farm is slow as fuck and u cant do anything to their heroes basically. i wouldve replaced bkb wit hfast basher and then either abyssal or diffusal to remove shroud. if u can break sven before he bkbs thats nice but their teamfight is so good u needed to pull ahead in the early game instead of having a 18 min echo
looks like in these even games you just dont have enough cs. you must balance aggression with farming and not fall behind.
yes daddy dont start with qb unless ur aganist tree u want 2 sets of regen in most games
Wow fuck. I don't see a problem with ur timing at all. If I could get both sb and Echo before 20 min I'd win all my games for sure.
im hard on myself about slark in particular because you must snowball or lose in a lot of games and the easiest way to start a snowball is having 70-90 cs by 10 mins
I usually don't get aquila because talon+raindrops covers your armour+mana regen early game and you want your shadowblade as fast as possible. Later on you have echo sabre so aquila isn't necessary anyway. I only get aquila if they have a hero that burns raindrops really quickly like underlord or I need more armour vs a Slardar or a -armour lineup.
just talon raindrop like he said^^ i see plenty of aquila though
i also saw a phase echo sabre slark LUL it was working too
I don't understand phase boots, you need to get as many essence shift stacks as possible under your first pounce+shadow dance and they don't help with that at all. If you really want to take a huge shit on your lane get an oov instead.
doesnt slark naturally lack raw damage on his basic item build? like if you dont take the +damage talent and dont build any real +damage items like SnY or mkb(idk) then i can see phase boots theoretically being of value...
i guess i wou;dnt do it though, treads are too efficient for farming i guess.
^^murder u dont want damage because u want to build passive stacks
this individual has decided he values getting extra use from echo sabre and increased kill and chase potential over extra mana, hp, and attack speed. whether his build is efficient or not it works for him clearly and i want to try it at least once
I mean phase sounds better in lane or where you need passive stacks by chasing rather than by hitting fast. Maybe against speedier enemies or when you lack lockdown to take advantage of treads attack speed. Tho treads and tread switching is much better for farming phase may be better for fighting sometimes. Its like viper phase i think. Except for the tread switching aspect.
passive stacks matter most when you have max essence shift, because they can actually win you the game at that point. slark with 90 bonus agi is going to eat ur fucking rax alive. just won a game because enemy team had oracle + dazzle (they picked huskar) and fed slark 99999999999999999 agi while i blinded huskar over and over
in the laning phase they last long enough to net you a kill and no more
playing supp in ranked is way too easy you just harass people and use smoke and cast spells and they die and u win the game GGGGGGGGGGGG
^^hello Sir...
you know the drill
This is what i mean when i say blue star elitism is so apparent when all said blue star has to do is say "well daddy here is where ur wrong..." and everything suddenly becomes better. Tbh just fuck off. Im not even mad anymore im just tired of the bullcrap u put up. Just make my day and leave.
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So I've been experimenting with Slark and now I have a question for a better players(4.5k+ preferbly)
~ Starting items:
Stount, Qualing, Set of tangos, 2x GG branch
Get finished PMS, buy boots, buy Iron Talon, PT , Aquila > FARM FARM FARM > @ 16-17 min I have: pt, aquila, pms, iron talon, SB, Echo
However, if I get: Stount, Qualing, set of tangos, 2x GG Branch
Get finished PMS, Buy boots, finish PT, buy Rain Drop > FARM FAMR FARM > @ 15-18 @ min PT/Echo/SB
So, how does just Aquila/Iron tallon increase my farming speed so much? Don't blame me for being a scrub.
Also not only tht, but I sell PMS, get a few kills, and 18-19 min I'm already on Silver Edge...
Now a few people told me it's a waste of money investing into aquila, PMS, Iron Talon, since it costs way too much and it deleys your core items.
I explained them that I get my core items faster, or equal with these items, and on a top of that, I get aquila/IronTalon to sell later on.
They told me I'm not efficient and that's why I get items slower without it, because I manage mana poorly(it's true, I admit it)
They also said, that with PMS/Qualing/Raiondrop you can get and 9-11 min Shadow Blade and start roaming with Slark: now;
Is it true that I should stop buying aquila/iron talon?
Sorry for a wall of text.