General Discussion

General DiscussionStrong disables

Strong disables in General Discussion
Anomaluna

    I'd like to discuss and get some knowledge on which heroes have hard lockdowns on single or multiple heroes but cannot be dispelled or countered by a single item or hero.

    For example:
    Batrider's Lasso, Beastmaster's Roar, Bane's Grip etc are single target hard lockdowns that can be removed with Oracle's False Promise, Legion Commander or Abaddon's dispells or simply removed by buying Lotus Orb on a support or Linken's Sphere on yourself. Legion Commander's Duel or Axe's Call may be slightly stronger than these but can be countered with banishes from heroes like Shadow Demon and Outworld Devourer.

    Skills like Enigma's Black Hole and Faceless Void's Chrono are much stronger in the sense that they are BKB piercing lockdowns that dont care for the above spells or items but can be countered with Global Silence (atleast in enigma's case) whether BKB is used before or after and in general with Vengeful Spirit's Nether Swap.

    I'd like to know more on spells like Warlock's Chaotic Offering or Magnu's Reverse Polarity. These spells have an Area of Effect, so single target defences like Linken's Sphere, Lotus Orb or the above discussed dispels dont matter. You could use Global Silence when a fight starts but the hero may prioritize Euls, Lotus Orb, Greaves or BKB to counter this, and the effect may just as well be nullified because the spells are almost instant and affect multiple heroes. In fact if Silencer is caught in the area of effect before he has a chance to use his ultimate, its likely he will die before he gets a chance to do so. Probably why these two heroes are so popular in the pro scene right now.

    Special mention to Puck's Dream Coil with Aghs upgrade, does this spell really count though? Even though it goes through BKB, it does only restrict the heroes' mobiliy a bit. Btw, can someone confirm what the initial stun duration is? Because even though break stun duration is high, I think initial stun duration is quite crucial.

    Also, any item or hero that can counter the effect of these heroes' spells instantly that I didn't think of? Jumping on these heroes before a fight starts is an option but I'd like more solutions.

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      Stun from coil and stun from RP both can be dispelled by strong dispells.

      Black Hole isn't dispellable, because it depends on the player being in an area, rather than an instance of some projectile hitting the player.

      Still, Chrono and Black Hole are countered by Force Staff and teamplay.

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      クラッパー

        Just so you know, force staff is definitely not a counter to void chrono, targets forced in chrono without free movement won't go anywhere, venge swap is about the only means of getting an ally out of a chronosphere to my knowledge.

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        クラッパー

          Also, since you didn't mention in your post, slark's dark pact is an incredibly strong dispel that will allow you to escape the likes of rp and the dream coil break disable.

          クラッパー

            Tbh, the dream coil break has some pretty weird interactions with some heroes, for instance faceless void can timewalk through the break radius without being affected by the damage or the stun. I'm not sure of anything else but there may also be some other interactions like this. Also I feel a special mention ought to go out to manta style, which is an item that whilst not necessarily giving a direct solution to some of these disables can enable you to avoid some of them with impressive use and timing. For instance manta style can be used to dodge disables like warlock's golem and Magnus's reverse polarity. I'll try and find the video of Arteezy manta dodging rp and link it. Just worth noting.

            Anomaluna

              ^AToMiC No problem, seen it already, however that play is all about the player, not the item. :)
              Worth mentioning though.
              And how could I forget about dark pact, exactly what makes playing against that hero so rage inducing, unless you're playing it, in which case *evil laugh*.
              I don't agree with force staff being a counter though. Not guaranteed.

              dioxgamingpro

                enigma is not a problem he has a very long cooldown on disables and noobs doesn't know how to play him surely loses instantly.

                dream coil is shit to puck any enemies who seems him around will stay away from their alies or hide from puck then try to kill puck because puck suffers a lot to initiate smart enemies while enigma, bat rider, crystal maiden, spectre, axe etc. can just blink to them and win the team fight. slark is shit now but antimage IS TOO STRONG IF YOU LET HIM FARM A LOT.

                od is op in team fights if you didn't kill him first while axe is really tanky TOO TANKY than 6.86 where he's easy to kill.

                warlock, shaman, windranger, nature prophet, death prophet, broodmother and other pushers can suicide push they have disables that makes them suicide pushers and escape mechanism (dp can just silence them or use the suck thingy while his ult focuses on tower) (and the rest can just blink out or run really fast)

                dioxgamingpro

                  btw abaddon, legion commander, bane, vengful spirit, skymage, crystal maiden, treant protector, luna and other heroes with some kind of team help can disable disablers make them waste their skills. happy?

                  bane is shit because valve doesn't want antimage to be low winrate which antimage can just manta and bkb. that's just bane a disabler

                  クラッパー

                    Yeah, I agree with u op, I don't think force is good against void since it doesn't work in chrono.
                    One other hero worth a quick mention would have to be ursa btw. His aghs upgrade allows enrage to function in a very similar way to skills like press the attack, dark pact or aba shield in that he can break out of stuns such as magnus rp, beast roar or warlock golem. Would need to test but it also might be possible to use enrage during chrono using this. Obviously you would remain stunned but it might act to negate a lot of the damage you take during a chrono. Not sure.
                    As a side note however, rather unlike press the attack, dark pact and shield, enrage can't be used to remove the likes of hexes or silences.

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                    Anomaluna

                      ^diox
                      buddy, what the fuck are you talking about?