You play Timbersaw offlane very very wrong, that's it.
You're supposed to always go 1-1-3 to win games easily. And never build garbage like Blade Mail.
My old acc, pretty much same bracket: https://www.dotabuff.com/players/53754940/matches?hero=timbersaw
Farm alot, max armor only, no fucking max q (the worst case of retardation) or max w in the offlane.
You have low farm, very wrong skill and itembuild, hence you don't understand wtf to do on Timber.
As Timber you shouldn't stay in trees, wtf, you should fucking get max armor stacks and dive the tower, kill the whole fucking trilane solo. Wtf's even in your head. Timber's like Brood, he doesn't sit around like a cuckold, but rather pressures the lane insanely. You're not supposed to stay passive or scared in lane, you're supposed to dive in and kill, force people to rotate to you, because they can't handle Timber diving their fucking T2 tower 13 mins in.
Looking at your Timber matches made me angry, idk why.
Trilane's job is to deny XP to the offlaner (kill), and get as much XP for themselves from pulling as possible.
Seeing as you are 4k, I'd assume that you are warding (blocking) the camps? Often the supports wont deward them (yes, even in 4k) until about 3 minutes in, after the mid used the courier.
Some of the better offlaner's I've played against hide and juke in the trees.
Timber, I usually get a PMS on the guy. Great item overall on him. +1 armor, and the damage block on top of your passive is enough to stay in lane almost indefinitely.
Also, since you are such an offlane nut, I'm surprised at your lack of Dark Seer and Magnus games. Even Puck. I guess my advice would be to adapt to the meta and adopt some newer offlaners.
Also, One Step Ahead is right, but I only go with the 1-1-3 build if I really can't handle the lane. Other than that, the PMS and an early Soul Ring lets you go 1-2-2 for a little more damage (which is needed in Timber's lane).
@One Step Ahead
You might be right but your manners are pissing me the fuck off. Anyway, I mentioned counters to the hero, lanes who heavily rely on magical damage. What's the advantage of getting 3 points in armor if you have 1 point in your W and won't be able to escape slows/stuns/burst/things? Almost always I max W for that reason. I get your point tho, E is what make Timbersaw tanky of course. And I realized blademail is trash on him a couple months ago, no worries. Thanks for the suggestions but sir, chill.
Biggest problem with your offlane I guess would be your lack of PMS (poor man's shield) and maybe Iron Talon if you are a more right click based hero. I've even gotten Iron Talon on Timber for the +2 Armor and ezier right click creeps after you've bullied everyone out of the lane.
Get those early game items and you can do more of what that dude^^^^ said.
basically you need a strong offlaner who can
1) Survive (tank or escape mech)
2) Jungle farm if they trilane .
Basically my go to strat is to buy a ward, buy a tp, and get traditional offlane items. GO block pull camp. I usually do the small camp.
I push lane if possible, agro creeps, once they get near the enemy tower, you pull big camp to your incoming creeps and deny a wave. Now you got creeps under your tower. Rotate to bounty.
Once the supports rotate, you should go back to lane.
You'll get it
As Timber, wait for the lane to push, aggro the creeps through "A", get 15+ stacks of armor and shit on both supports.
Counter early burst damage with drops/stick.
Always buy a ward for yourself to block the distant pull, they ain't gonna deward it 90% of the time in 4k anyway, buy it in starting items.
Disrupt the closer pull spot by reaggroing the creeps on yourself, when the support tries to pull.
Ward, blocking the distant pull also helps to spot incoming lvl 1 rot+boots Pudge 90% of the time.
I have the same issue tho not at similar skill level or against supports..its the goddamn roaming pudge every game that ruins my life....roaming pudge/clock are so hard to deal with....can someone tell me what to do against them ...
I wouldn't get Talon, but just qb, hence it is not as profitable as it used to be.
If the Pudge just stays there, then just relax and wait, be patient and Pudge will fuck off.
He wasted his time on nothing and leeched his carry's exp for 0 kills and 0 assists, be happy about it.
If you're playing an invis hero, then get some sentries and put them in tricky spots to deward any enemy sentries w/tangoes.
If you're playing a hero with summons, use summons to sabotage creep pulls, to pull the first wave under your tower entirely, to harass/kill supports and to scout for any intruders in lane.
If you get zoned the fuck out, then farm the offlane jungle spots, put a ward on the cliff, hence the supports may come for you in your own jungle. See them moving to you - back off. Make them waste their time, while their mid cries for help.
@Snu
Yeah I had the feeling my starting items were the problem, was always so weak in lane. Anyway got it, thanks dude.
Will give Dark Seer another chance too, I have like 60% wins on him but after a bunch of games I preferred to give other offlaners the priority. Magnus is more than legit too, with that bullshit ulti (in a good way). For Puck lol, I started hating that hero 'cause I used him for the Batte Pass quest about avoiding physical and magical damage, so I spent like 20 games in a row trying to do that quest by afking under the enemy tower to escape physical damage. It was a trauma.
@One Step Ahead
Will do that too, thanks again.
Btw if Timbersaw is one of your favourite heroes it's easy to understand why you got angry. Watching people using that same hero in the wrong way gives the impression they're "raping" him lol.
Also, you're highly unlikely to encounter this, I did very rarely, but you may get your offlane jungle spots blocked by enemy supports. If such does happen, ask your support to buy you 2 sentries and an observer. Deward the spots and put an obs on the adjacent cliff, so you may spot any enemy supports coming in to reblock the spots.
If supports do this, they usually do it in the beginning of the game, thus I'd check early to see, whether there are creeps spawned in you offlane jungle at all. Take your time to check, if there are creeps as soon, as your lane gets pushed to the enemy, not to waste any farm/exp.
Deward early = you won't be surprised by lack of farm later.
This only happens in very rare scenarios, where supports just fucking hate you for some reason.
i have not seen a more retarded useless low mmr answers than these in weeks .
1st option= Consider the fact that the supports have to buy courier, wards, tp, smoke, pool tangoes etc.
so that they help others, they'll naturally have less regen, so just fucking fight them and kick them out of lane, then you can farm or sap exp for free, your job is to stay alive and get levels, not to farm that lane.
2nd option= annoying 2-3 lane that can't 100% kill you as soon as they spot you:
get boots, a smoke, tangoes and TP(ask for a ward as fast as possible) then teleport and hide in the trees at the enemy side
then just jack the first creepwave, bring it between your t1/t2. This results in it meeting with your 2nd creepwave which results in the 3rd and 4th creepwave to be pushed into your tower as well, all you have to do is not miss LH under tower
this will completely fuck everything up for the enemy supports as you'll get lvl 3 and like 3-4 free creepwaves under/behind your tower due to them pushing for free and you can now buy stout n shit and even kill the supports because of your level advantage.
If the enemy pulls during this, it'll cause them to get double waved under the tower, where you can get lots of easy kills on anyone really, there were times when i killed whole 3lanes using this trick.
option 3: 2-3 lane that will 100% kill you if you enter the lane at lvl 1:
i pick shit like axe so i can always fall back on jungle
also in a way if u can at least keep a trilane locked on the safelane where theyre forced to stay in lane to zone u or u wud win the lane, it is kinda good cuz u just made the game 4v2 for the rest of ur team
in my low mmr, the lanes even when they r very hard to contest r super easy to just sit back, sap xp, and wait for them to inevitably shove the lane under my tower.
@Cookie
Like I said I'm naturally very aggressive in terms of playstyle and of course I do consider the fact that supports come to lane with less sustain than me. The second option is very smart but it will take a bit of time for me to understand what's the best solution between 2 and 3 game by game, especially when it comes to trilanes. Will work on that too for sure.
@Road to Crippling Depression
True, at lower mmr no one cares about creeps equilibrium, not afking in lane doing nothing and leeching and exp and stuff. Problem is this thing becomes much less exploitable once people start paying attention to what they're doing and why they're doing it.
Maybe if I say shit like this,
i have not seen a more retarded useless low mmr answers than these in weeks
people will be more inclined to listen and respect me, despite how repetitive my content is.
@Snu
Not at all, I can assure you, he knows I don't like his arrogance :D that option seems objectively efficient and logical tho. I took your points into consideration with equal interest anyway, don't worry.
Eh, I'm alright with Cookie most of the time. Its just that elitist mmr comments piss me off, especially when the rest of their post contains a lot of the same basic information.
Pick strong laner at lvl 1 that doesn't care about solo support tickling you like ursa Lul
You can easily win 1v 2 lanes. Not against trilanes tho
considering how repetitive and stupid almost every question on this forum is, that's the best i'll give.
@SLQ being aggressive is not the same as being suicidal.
basically if they have like a shit ton of slows/stuns ex a 3lane Pudge, cm, jugger that will always kill you because cm net>pudge slow> spin, literally impossible to escape, then you go for option 3.
if they don't have multiple stuns/slows/annoyingly high nukes then you just jack it aka option 2.
@cooki would you mind giving me a match id where you snatch the creepwave into your tower?
When there are no supports in lane, you go last hit. Against low-damage enemies, it is typically safe to last hit during level 1 and 2 when there is a support and carry in lane. Stand close to creeps but on the opposite side of the support, so he drags the creeps when he harasses or must disable aggro first. When there is 1 support in lane or no supports showing on the map, you hide in the bush. Against top-level supports, they will zone you out perfectly and take 0 damage. You hide in the bush, so to damage you, they must come into melee range and take massive damage. The change from 50% deny xp to 70% makes it so hiding in the bush is not even bad. When there are 2 supports in lane, you go jungle. 2 top-level supports will always create a losing situation for you.
Can someone elaborate more about cookies option 2? Where to jack the wave and lead the wave across the river to your T2 tower? Thanks
Regards
Gecko
This creep pulling is interesting. I only saw it with Lone Druid so far, and its pretty ez to do it with this hero. Where you position yourself to pull the creepwave ? Also that enemies dont spot you ? Are they not trying to body block the wave so you will just die tryin to do so ?
You do it with prophet treants. U do it with your own hero if they can't just stun/slow then kill u.
@Cookie lol thanks for explaining the basics of the game, not that I have liks 6k games, didn't know CM+Jugg+Pudge was cancer. I was talking about situations I can't predict well due to the lack of experience, that is if I'm playing vs heroes I didn't have to face very often, like an Io, a Chen or whatever. No one ever picks those heroes in 3-4k.
hit them when they come to the HG so they don't run away.
SLQ apply some basic logic and just count how many stuns/slows they have, regardless of what heroes.
primary damage source in the early game is right clicks, not spells.
SLQ apply some basic logic and just count how many stuns/slows they have, regardless of what heroes.
primary damage source in the early game is right clicks, not spells.
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I never thought I would open such thread. Position 3 has been my primary role since forever, that's basically how I doubled my mmr. I'm a born initiator and aggressive player, so when it comes to ganking, initiating, getting pick offs and outplaying I hardly ever fail. Laning as a solo offlaner was never a problem either, until I reached a higher skill bracket where, of course, you get punished more for your weaknesses. Now people know how to counter and zone out the offlaner, so staying in lane has become pretty much impossible for me in most games. For example, in my last Timbersaw game I started pinging like a retard my afk jungling Mirana one minute into the game 'cause their Jakiro was being a nightmare. "Not even one minute and you already ask for help, why tf do you go offlane then" I was told. He was being useless and Jakiro is objectively annoying, but I can't deny the fact that he was right. The more I play games as offlaner (at least 1 vs 2 vs a fucking annoysoghsfoghdfgl support) the more I realize how weak my laning capability is in difficult situations. In my last Earthshaker game I was able to go 0-3 vs a solo Druid, we still won 'cause my team did god's work in the first 20 minutes of the game and 'cause I landed some 322 million dollars echoslams (no joke) but still, 0-fucking-3. So my question is: how do you deal with supports that counter you in lane, zone you out and make trading a disadvantage for you, forcing you to lose more hp than they do? What was I practically supposed to do in that TImbersaw game vs that Jakiro, for example? If it's about heroes like LC, Axe, Centaur or whatever spending part of your time in the jungle next to the lane is fondamental I think, then coming back to lane to depush and doing it again, ok. But heroes like Timbersaw? Should I just have hid in the trees to get exp? And what if they were running a trilane? I don't expect every game to be perfect, especially as solo offlaner, but how to not feed without leaving the lane and ending up being an underlevelled big creep? I'd also like some advice about starting items, 'cause that might be part of the problem. I usually get at least 1 set of tangos and 1 salve + shield + some mana regen, depending on the hero tho, but apparently that doesn't help.