I think stunning illusions is more effective than killing them against ck, so aoe stunners i guess. Or you try to pressure him in the lane. Its not very easy to do but he is kinda shit if he doesnt take a lead in the laning stage.
Just need to chain disables and aoe when he ults. Strong initiators like like Earthshaker, Magnus and SK are pretty good since CK illusions are always clumped up together. Tide especially since most of CK's damage is from strength items, and you can easily reduce that damage from him and his illusions with anchor smash. Then just follow-up with aoe damage like Sven, Medusa, Jakiro, etc, though you might not even need aoe damage that much if you can quickly find the real CK and start focusing him down.
ye all that is good buut what i mean is when you get last pick cheezed
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3508444319
i had the last pick and picked sf
idk why it worked or they are just retarded
mkb is so terrible on CK, even against a butterfly user. I would've just gotten more stat items for my illusions and just tried to brute force through the evasion.
...sven isnt that mich of a counter
CK with 12 min armlet and pt destroys sven until he gets bkb.
ehen sven has blink he has an advantage, only of he initiates on ck, the other way around he looses.
ck can start fighting earlier than sven
to make sven a decent counter pre-bkb you need a good AoE setup disable like ES, invoker, sand king, tidehunter, jakiro, underlord ezc
ye all that is good buut what i mean is when you get last pick cheezed
same thing u do when u pay vs last pick meepo huskar or brood
^ @No dota till 1k ....
https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/chaos-knight
Worst versus Medusa and Sven. Medusa for obvious ult reasons. Sven also for obvious reasons. Sorry but I havent seen CK solo dominating the game with 2 items yet on 12-15 min mark.
The thing you are talking about is when your team group up and completely dominate enemies and close them in base under 15 min mark so Sven dont get the farm - but still its not Sven's fault but his team mostly. How many times out of 100 does this happen ?
maybe play the hero yourself and you know what im talking about
i first picked ck most of my games and never had any troubles with sven
by the time sven has mom you have armlet, you go as 5 and take towers
then he has blink but you have halberd....if you itemize well sven cant do shit
dotabuff winrate woaw. ofc when 90% of the playerbase sits in flat 2k where every just sits in jungle until someone is 6 slotted (hint: its never ck)
sven has nothing to deal with ck if played halfway properly, unless they have good setup
sven needs bkb if and a blink if he wants to fight a decent ck player, thats not 15 minutes
And you are 3k mate. Unless you are against an absolutely braindead player, sven will completely outfarm ck, has 3 spells that counter him and can actually fight just fine contrary to your retarded belief of needing bkb.
You are 3k, you have tons of thing to work on and you try to give some precious advices which are total bullshit. Well thx for your opinion but thats not true.
You played 3 games with Ck agaisnt Sven where 2 of them were normal skill. Recently I played in a 3k game with Storm against NS, Kotl and Void and had no problems winning that game. On your bracket people can just pick Slark or Riki and are unstoppable.
and you're a 4k dude with 30 ck games and a 40% winrate?
with a wk profile picture? cmonbruh be quiet and sit down
wk isnt thuglife you snail
and 2 carries? go is salty because he play ck jungle?
go home sea goblin
agressive perfector the 6k cuck
The seven hero or the medusa are really good. Stuff like sand king/shaker/phoenix/timber does fine as well.
I think the hardest counter is medusa aghs, instant death to ck's illusions on like an 8 second cooldown.
Warlock and medusa imo are the best counters
evasion is good because he doesnt like to go for mkb and it decrease his dps
Mjolnir or battlefury are helpful
If ur playing something with nukes drop ur nukes on him asap so when he ulti illusions will be easier to deal with
Lion can instant remove 2 illusions which is good
Pugna aghs can remove all his illusions
Tinker aghs is good too
Veil of discord is good because you can use it before he ulti and after he does u can know which one is the real one because it doesnt dispell it, if u got no counters to him the best way to play against him is fake fight force him to ulti then run, he is somehow like sven, he is good without ulti but his ulti is most of his damage
^it's not instant death to CK illusion. I play CK over 110 matches in 4k game and know pretty well how to deal with that. If medusa ulti while I using phantasm will just turn my back against her and fall back then fight again after her ulti drop off.
A real hard counter to CK are Magnus, ES, Jakiro, Kotl, Sven, Meepo and Enigma. In my opinion Jakiro and Kotl is the best CK counter. Since carry CK doing pretty bad in early game lane. Laning against this 2 can ruin his farm very hard. Kotl can suck his mana and spamming 1st skill to him and in team fight he can literally make CK illusion useless by using blinding light. Jakiro is also CK nightmare since his skill are very long stun and nuke. This allow him to position from a far out of CK reach then stun and nuke him down along with his illusion and laning against Jakiro is already worst.
But hero that people think it counter him hard are not actually counter him that hard. Example ES and Sven. Most people who pick this hero just to counter CK will be over confident and will not position properly. This allow experience CK player to take initiative and initiate them first and you know 1 rift with phantasm = 99.99% kill on almost every hero and I always buy blink dagger as 3rd item to gain this initiative. So yeah who are the best counter to CK? Kotl and Jakiro I say. their skills range ar crazy and eve out of dagger range to rift them.
there are the cks who get armlet and turn it on before ult and there are the ones that dont.
you can be a bit looser if dealing with the later.
Aside from usual and obvious counters like earthshaker, CK is a shitty farmer and really wants to push the pace of game into early fights. But he doesn't do all that much dmg early and his ult is long cd. So he is going to mostly want to pick off squishy heroes with rift and the armor reduction. He's very good vs supports like cm, lion etc cus of his gap closer, stun combo they die fast. But he's not good vs heroes who can tank him and he can be out farmed very easily. That's probably more why sven is so good vs him, everyone thinks it's the cleave but it's really cus sven will farm a lot faster and out carry if ck doesn't snowball and sven warcry counters rift armor reduction.
Troll can also be a great counter, aoe axes will reveal real ck and he'll miss you and troll farms faster. Anti mage should be good cus the cast animation on rift is so long am should always be able to blink away and he'll massively out farm ck. Lich should be a pretty good support cus you can wreck ck's lane and frost armor.
@Nikola Tesla you missed the patch notes I think - Aghs Mystic Snake kills illusions instantly on an 11(?) sec cooldown.
You're totally right that her ulti is pretty naff against phantasm though...
Timbersaw and Axe are direct counters to CK. I only remember one time losing to CK as Timbersaw 'cause he was fat af. Man did I get rekt that game.
i think its the cleave even if sven outfarm ck as long as ck reach lv25 its even match
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3504639817
i dont think u can outfarm good ck player.
i dont think u can outfarm good ck player.
i dont think u can outfarm good ck player.
i dont think u can outfarm good ck player.
i dont think u can outfarm good ck player.
Sven can outfarm CK easily I agree with this. He basically born to counter CK from my experience. His 1st skill is an Aoe stun. Cleave + GS + echoes sab almost instantly kill all illusion and war cry reduce rift damage very efficiently. As for carry Sven counter CK hard.
Another is meepo. Good meepo player can outfarm and nuke CK to death and end game before late game easily. This hero also good vs CK.
But from my experience CK is still not losing instantly even when they pick this hero. He still can catch up at farming by prio 3rd skill and upgrade Phantasm at level 6 and use it to farm ancient stack. Even if people say he don't have farming potential I still find him easier to farm than spectre and medusa. Also Blink dagger that I alway buy grant CK initiative against hero that counter him allow CK to stun and rift them before they stun him. So the thing that actually counter CK is not only about hero or farming but also position.
Once I have fight with ES and Sven in the same team while I playing CK they always overconfident and stand in front like nothing can hurt them but they are wrong Armlet+Phatasm then Blink stun and rift kill ES instantly and I use silence on Sven (I always buy orchid this item increase CK mana and allow CK to 1v3 easily if your hand fast enought) after that I retreat, waiting for stun cd then kill Sven in a sec. Then I came with the conclusion when fighting against CK always initiate him first and position yourself properly
CK is NOT killing Sven unless Sven misplays. If CK's team is ahead, Sven just split pushes and farms until he can contest CK. If Sven's team is ahead, they just run at you and you can do nothing.
This matchup is just sad for CK unless CK's team absolutely stomps or CK has some other things going for him. For example, if CK's team has shit like enigma/magnus/bane and in general BKB piercing stuns, Sven's lategame against CK won't really be that amazing since CK can kill Sven if Sven is disabled for long periods of time. CK can also get a halberd to make Sven useless outside of BKB (and kill him during the halberd duration), but this also depends on whether CK is getting free reign in fights (aside from Sven).
There are lots of things to be said about the matchup, but it is really really Sven favored by a longshot and the only way Sven loses that is if the enemy team has Sven counters that your team (for some reason) cannot do anything about. For example, Sven who has legion or abaddon (or even SD) on his team doesn't have to give much of a shit if they can reliably save him from roar/grip/RP, but if he is defenseless against BKB piercing stuns, he's very likely to fall victim to CK in the end.
Personally think meepo rubbish against Ck. He rifts a clone and it is burst down before a poof bomb arrives.
Obviously ck also fcuked if meepo initiate on him first.
Can you rift whilst rooted?
If Sven spltpushes vs chaos then his team will continually be wiped. Versus Sven ck just needs to sit back and wait for sven's stun to be on cool down and pick off sven's teammates.
^no, phantasm is on a huge cooldown and CK isn't that strong without his ult, your team can't continually be wiped by such a huge cooldown
and even if your team were to be getting wiped, but you are getting farm as sven, you will take that trade
or you just go with your team as sven with a backline that has saves, give a ton of armor to everyone, make it so that CK cannot kill anyone, then just take towers
Sven actually has 4 abilities that counter CK - aoe stun, aoe damage, aoe armor and something a lot of people usually forget, A SMALLER COOLDOWN ON HIS ULTIMATE, Sven can fight almost twice as often as CK, it's the same reason why heroes that run at you with low disable cooldowns counter shit like enigma and tidehunter
You won't use level 1 phantasm in team fight early on anyway. That's why I use it to farm ancient stack at level 6 between 9 min and Sven mostly don't go to jungle that early so this will increase his farming speed ahead of sven for a while.
Also CK can pick off Sven if he's not carefully enought. Initiate Sven before he use war cry can did a ton of damage to him and with Phantasm level 2 that's enough to kill any hero. I personally going for blink before 20min vs Sven and it's very effective. After that orchid and basher will be an option but that's depend on both team anyway. Still, Sven is stronger early on and counter ck with correctly play.
I think you can win a lot of games as CK vs Sven simply because CK is a better hero right now, and people pick Sven on impulse, even if they are not comfortable with the hero, just to counter CK.
Sven is really straightforward to play but there are so many ways to fuck up with the hero it isn't even funny, and picking it when you spam jugg, antimage and bs is just asking to lose since you aren't used to Sven's playstyle.
TL;DR: If you spam CK I am pretty sure you can build anything and do anything and still win against hard counters if people pick heroes they are uncomfortable with to counter you.
how anyone finds ck easier to farm with than medusa is beyond me. Sounds like you literally do not know how to clear jungle camps without lifesteal.
댓글을 작성하시려면 로그인이 필요합니다.
^ el titolo