You could make it like kotl aghs where he always stay in meta form, or like wyvern where it's a toggle but drains mana
i like the idea of aghs being permanent meta
because its the most broken alch aghs in the game
by far
Rip towers
Dragon form sounds decent, not metamorphosis
What if he would simply give metamorphosis to allies? Like ck?
Although support tb sounds much worse than support ck
increased reflection slow and reduced cooldown
this sounds more like a "never picked talent" than an aghs upgrade tho
maybe if he gets a tinker-like aghs where some of his skils upgraded in some way
That could actually be some viable shit right here^
Ursa's aghs is super strong and have a very interesting premise
Is this some meme? That's literally what CK's aghs does, same duration, number of illusions and CD reduction.
Also, Why would Metamophosis be the one to create illusions and not Conjure Image that makes no sense.
Tfw it takes 12 comments to realise you are pointing out how shit Ck’s aghs is by suggesting it for a similar long cooldown reliant illusion based hero :/
Over the past month CK has had aghs bought 20k times. Some other carries with useless or gimmicky aghs are Sven on 16k and Slark on 9k over the past month. DP who doesn’t even have an aghs upgrade has had it built 11k times.
Compare to carries with useful/usefulish aghs upgrades like Bloodseeker with 575k times bought this month, mirana 1.8 million, tiny 1.2 million and necrolyte 2.9 million.
wait no
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IMO Sven's and Underlord's aghanims are the most underappreciated of all. Especially considering tha UL is an offlaner it's baffling why has nobody even tried to utilize his aghs.
Well, leaks say that 7.07 is gonna rework the traditional aghs' definition anyway so you shouldn't really care at this point.
I think underlord aghs is a bit misinterpreted, to me the aghs doesn't seem like a teamfight oriented one, but rather post-teamfight, if you win the fight you going to have some bonus damage, for PUSHING
Someone can confirm if the aura works on creeps?
It also increases the duration to 100 seconds. So if your team has some heals/sustain you can just win one fight and steamroll to the point where even buybacks won't help the enemy.
It works on heroes only, even if it worked on creep-heroes that would be too much lol.
Sunder debuffs and applies the debuff onto target enemy
Doesn't transfer the debuff if cast on teammate
ck aghs isnt bad, it just doesnt fit the hero. his entire kit is based around creating illusions of himself, not somebody else, even when he is a support. his illusions have a lot of synergy with his spells. if you add the same aghs to literally any other support hero, it will be considered op because they can easily sacrifice other items to just buy this aghs. for 4.2k you literally triple your carry's dps (even more if you are lucky).
Well, the illusions are under your control, so Reality Rift works just as fine for someone else's illusion. The only thing not working is his crit, which is the worst crit in the game anyway so that's not a huge loss.
are they actually? didnt know that. so its like replicate? its the worst crit because ck having a stronger crit would break him. also it gives lifesteal which works on illusions for some reason, no other lifesteal works.
Luxor, i buy underlord aghs. In situations where my team wins any teamfight 5-0 and we consider buying desolateres on the supports to push faster.
I've been in a game where an underlord bought aghs and we won a team fight. Gave everyone about an extra 200 damage or something like that. Took all the barracks off it. I'd say it should be a core item on UL.
Compare that to Slark aghs. 30 seconds cooldown on an ability which you really only need once every team fight anyway (like how many team fights are there that occur more than in a 60 second window), and applying the can't get hit by targetted abilities/attacks mechanic to any allies who are really close by. Just not good enough on a hero who needs something ilke silver edge, sange and yasha, abyssal, skadi, butterfly and BoTs to get 6 slotted.
Or CK's aghs. I have seen a support CK like twice since the Aghs was introduced and even then it's not built. The CK just builds up normal armlet, echo sabre, heart, ac etc like a carry but slower. When an aghs is so situational that you have to have silly team line ups like support CK and a carry which it's better to create illusions of than a farmed CK (as opposed to just running CK as a carry normally), it's a sign for the need for a rework. Something which plays off his random chance theme would be much more useful imo. Something like turning chaos bolt into semi witch doctor cask thing so it creates a second and third chaos bolt that bounce off the initially hit unit and hit other units in range etc. There's just so many better opportunities than what it currently is.
Anyway I'm just worried that TB will get something as equally shit as the above in 7.07 as I feel like there will be several more of the remaining few un-aghs heroes getting theirs. He has the opportunity get something useful like increasing illusion damage by 10% and reducing damage taken by 100%, but he'll probably end up with something useless like CK and Slarks one.
I am assuming you haven't seen luna, terrorblade or morphling with CK's aghs illusions.
That shit's insane and basically broken. It does require your CK to somehow get an aghs which is the catch, but if he does it's just... If you don't have a way to clear those illusions in first place, your base will just melt.
It also increases the duration to 100 seconds. So if your team has some heals/sustain you can just win one fight and steamroll to the point where even buybacks won't help the enemy.
It works on heroes only, even if it worked on creep-heroes that would be too much lol.
Well if it doesn't work for creeps than it's really more steamrolling than pushing i guess, it's a win-more aghs, which is totally reasonable
Maybe they can integrate it into working with creeps to make it a push oriented aghs, like lets say it halves the damage bonus for heroes and quarters for creeps
Another point is, a CK that plays from the support role somehow gets 4200 gold, he can either build himself as a carry, or help out his illusion-compatible carry.
Now here's the thing, can you decide what's scarrier? An echo+armlet CK 35 minutes into the game (whose illusions your support can likely clear) or a 35 well farmed luna or TB with CK's illusions? Normally, that CK might contribute somewhat with armlet echo but his effectiveness will be questionable since he's bound to be underleveled and underfarmed compared to the enemy cores. If the game goes past an hour, sure, you'll want to have built CK as a carry but the thing is, think about a reasonable aghs timing, and what you could have instead, and think whether it is really more scary than having an insane buff on your illusion based safelane core.
The thing is, a ck support isn't relying in getting aghs like a tb with the above idea
You still have a quiet powerful nuke/stun, a pull (albeit unreliable, still a pull) that also reduces armor, and a potential to reduce armor further through crit
He certainly have the tools to impact the game without items
And if aghs is a priority on him on a certain setup, well its not like it's impossible to gather 4200 gold on a support, we see a lot of teams prioritize a nightstalker into getting an aghs. Although he has no farming capabilities (just like ck), because situationally aghs is a gamechanger on him (just like it could be on ck)
^What I am saying is that with ultra late echo + armlet timings, you're really better off just building an aghs to boost your carry, if the carry has good illusions.
I don't care how good CK is without items, he will always have decent utility in stun + rift, what I am saying is that he's basically shit with only echo + armlet 35 minutes in, at which point he could get an aghs and buff his carry. CK is a momentum based carry to a large degree and sure, if left completely uncountered he could eventually overtake the game even from a support position, but in most games, the impact of his right clicks + illusions in general when he's playing support is going to be just miniscule.
The only thing stopping this being something more people do is that, as always, aghs has a terrible fucking buildup and is kind of really hard to build on this hero, since you'd prefer to have some cheaper items to fight to win more fights, even a medallion and euls are better than saving up 4000 gold for a while.
Aghs gold is locked up in shit items that give 10 of each stat and some hp and mana, where you could have bought either useful utility for your team, or built at least some right click to try to do something.
Ok so just did a quick search of the TI7 matches to see how/whether support CK works. In 95% of games (29/30) he was run as a carry. He was only run as a support once (paired with a PA for her crit I guess). It didn't go well and in fact his constant feeding might have a been part of their loss.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3356066834 - doesn't even be able to farm an aghs.
And you can see how it would be bad. Compare to other strength supports - ogre provides stun/2 stuns, slow/dot and attack speed, earthshaker provides multiple stuns and aoe damage, sk provides multi stuns, slows, and aoe damage, even support svens provide an aoe stun and team wide armour/movespeed. CK combines a single targeted stun for little as 1-2 seconds and then puts himself in harms way with reality rift. He has a useless crit ability for a support and a mostly useless ultimate until he gets the aghs. I think support CK has been shown to be thoroughly not a thing.
strength supports - ogre
Yeah, but he can roam and has been successfully played as a roamer in high MMR specifically. That being said, he is obviously worse than a lot of those heroes as a pos 4. I am sure you realize that one game is not really an indicator of his potential competitive or pub success. How many times has pos 4 WK been played and how successful was he?
I'm sure literally no one would let you get ck and a powerful illusion hero without them having ES or some other shit to slaughter you
I'm sure literally no one would let you get ck and a powerful illusion hero without them having ES or some other shit to slaughter you
have you acquainted yourself with the concept of bans
Sven aghs is quite good if you have like a three right clicker lineup, problem is in this meta you always have invoker/tinker/necro/veno or something so it's wasted. If you did like dk mid and another right clicker offlane in a dual lane like wk + lich then aghs would be a great pickup. Usually when I play sven I get teams like this where I'm not sure it's worth. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3415884657
Invoker actually has an insane int gain, and sven aghs gives him 100% of his base damage. It is basically a guaranteed double damage.
Also, sven + invoker combo can be really strong even without aghs, I think aghs is just an overkill there. There are better ways to use your farm as sven. I think if you played something weird like safelane sven with mid morphling it'd be strong as fuck once you five man. Morphling is the single hero that benefits the most from god's strength, in a way.
However, sven + morph mid has serious momentum issues and would probably lose lanes and the game in the end.
fnatic was literally the worst team at ti7 so them losing a game with any hero is to expected, they won like only 1 or 2 games anyway.
sven aghs + tiny?
xd
The problem with tiny is that he has a ton of base damage but really shit attack speed. Morphling hits really fast and really hard, and giving him a reliable double damage would be broken. Still though, tiny mid (especially with io) with sven safelane (also combos well with io if needed) can be pretty good in pubs, and can give you a proper momentum for the game - morphling and sven are both too much of a heavy farmer hero, where tiny destroys people with just levels.
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Metamorphasis becomes a castable ability. It can be cast on an allied hero to create 4 copies of that hero that last for 42 seconds. Also gives a 20 second cooldown reduction to the ability.
Although on second thoughts it’s probably a terrible idea for an aghs upgrade for a core hero who will always want to make illusion of itself since any illusions it makes of itself are far more likely to be stronger than any illusions of other lesser farmed allied heroes created.