1) this is not a thing because then its pretty much just a better pa dagger. they should add a talent that makes it scale with his damage though (instead of that garbage flat damage increase).
2) current version is good actually. - armor doesnt work on this hero, because the debuff simply makes the enemy behave like they have 0 armor. so even if they actually had -10 armor, you would still deal damage as if they had 0 armor.
3) just remove the stupid delay on it and its fine. 15% is already a pathetically low chance for a passive, giving it a delay on top of that is just bad.
4) ult has no synergy with the rest of his kit. you cant use your passive (even if you could the ult does magic damage), you cant use swashbuckle, shield crash is really nice, but you have to use it just to manuever most of the time, rather than using it to actually deal damage/get resistance. so this ulti is a total flop imo.
^good question, I guess go with just 75% or 75 + 50% or whatever the problem is that it is hard to scale it in a way that it deals a lot of damage, which if you have played PA or Ember, you should know to be possible
fuck it if it is broken
just remove the delay on his passive is all, maybe also increase roll speed(and turn rate accordingly)
im adamant people think hes bad because they try to make him a carry instead of an annoying tanky cc/dd offlaner
I played this hero yesterday for the first time, although lost, I see so much potential with this hero. This hero doesn't need a buff, if anything, it will be a nerf.
I'm sure the majority of the people who complain the hero is underpowered either have no idea how to play the hero or have never even played the hero in the first place actually.
Agreed, early game has access to 2-3 good nukes with stun. Q W R are both decent escape to get out of situation. Ulti cool down is way too short, Sometime I used it to get back home. Some cheap items dramatically increase the damage (diff, MKB). And the best of all... this hero farms so fast. You can start this hero as a position 3 and match your position 2/1 farm after mid game. Q is basically a blink + cleave ability, AM is so sad right now.
He doesn’t need buffs at all
ppl just building retarded shit and playing like trash
I guarantee if u went vg mkb bash/mjol you would rape people
it’s whatever, 160 physical/200manaburn
Mkb on average is 180 pure, works on creeps. Double javelin will let you shred people if you get lucky at all
I feel like u can go offlane and build tanky too
Or build carry and try to shred people
His e is just kinda ass, only gets good lategame, and the delay is what kills it in the early game
Just don't go carry on that hero
Also his ult needs a little buff. It shouldn't go on cd if you're interrupted while transforming. I think it should also pierce spell immunity.
The hero is very hard to kill especially with vanguard rush.
I believe the hero needs a couple buffs but not too many.
I’m going to try him out soon to see fully tho
I have no played this hero on this account because I am in LPQ.
Anyways I just feel like he doesn't farm that fast to warrant the "yo dude just get mkb basher diffusal and its great" kinda deal. Maybe if I go malestrom as the farming item from the offlane? Or do I just build tanky? I see even pros building him in 50 different ways so I have no idea what the best way to play him is.
Spam him in turbo to see what items sync with him well, u can try 10 different build in 10 games anyway
Also his ult needs a little buff. It shouldn't go on cd if you're interrupted while transforming
no ty u already need a lot of disable to pin him down if he didnt waste q like a moron, being able to recast ulti when interrupted would make him nigh unkillable
i mean even bara doesnt get his charge cd back when stunned and this shit is bara charge on roids pretty much
His skills don't sync with each other. W and R go well together, while Q and E go well together.
Focusing on W and R (shield and ball) means you want to be a tanky nuisance to the enemy, i.e. aoe dmg and chaos. But there are better heroes for that; timber, axe, maybe even bristle.
Focusing on Q and E (burst dmg and armor break) means you want him to be a mobile, slippery damage dealer. Again, there are better heroes for that; slark, troll, pa.
So where is this hero exactly?
^ Q and W, deal like AOE 600 damage with half of them being psychical damage at level 9 with literally 0 item requirement and very easy to land. no mana cost or cooldown issue once so ever. And that's only half of the hero. are you kidding me? A combo with 0 item requirement is going in with R, W most of people, Q reposition and hit all these people and start focusing on one. Very easy to execute and you just dealt like 1000 damage to who ever you landed the combo, don't even mention the stun and other possibility. The worst is, 0 item requirement for this to execute, and if you get a blink, this becomes a guarantee like a tidehunter ulti.
In every single game of mine when someone picks pangolier they feed non stop. MAYBE its good early game because of the "600 aoe damage" but its literally the worst hero you could possible have for late game. Passive is 15% chance to land it. 2sec delay. Slow and 0armor for few seconds. I can imagine it be good only when you are being carried but the only reason why your team is not gonna report you is because you have 15% chance to slow the target. In my opinion there's no other hero that is as useless as pangolier.
600 aoe damage is the worst arguement i have ever heard. There are tons of others heroes who have similar or more damage on less cooldown (timbersaw, puck, lina). But the damage these heroes do is actually meaningful because they can followup on it unlike pangolier who is a sitting duck until swashbuckle comes off cd again.
Easy Lane survival, durable by nature, high nuke in early game, low item dependent, ability to farm fast, scale to late game. I have made my point, The only way to demonstrate is that you play with me :)
How strong is this hero you ask me? get rid of his passive and he still need some fix to his skill specs.
That flat physical Q scales so well into the late game, I am about to shit my pants, from how overpowered it is.
Flat damage is the best scaling thing in the game.
if I wanted to do insane amounts of damage without any items I would pick jakiro not pangolier.
this hero needs a shitton of items to stay relevant and has no good way to farm them most of the time.
Pretty much every other carry with abyssal + MKB + diffusal + mjollnir is more of a threat than he is.
Those items are nice to build on pangolier but you know what? Why didn't you pick jugg if you wanted those items. He'd actually be able to do something with them aside from hoping to nuke people to death on a cooldown.
Pango is just a lot better mid.
He's too retarded and fragile to be put in the offlane and has way too much burst and outplay potential to be put safe.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3541107388
Also javelin is absolutely broken on him. If you just stack 2 javelins you slice your enemies hp in half and clear waves instantly.
Also soul ring was made from him and allows him to spam wave clear and farm really fast
Tried the VG MKB Basher build on high skill smurf
Super good, he abuses the Javelin damage OMFG people drop like half their HP in one swish.
He can get Vanguard for durability first
He has no problem farming with Q and W
Vanguard is convenient because it builds into Abyssal later which you really like the bash for and MKB is just overpowered atm which he can abuse
I guess the winrate is just because large part of the Dota community picks him and majority of them are just scrubs having stupid fun
basher is shit on pango it has a 3 second cd. double javelin veil on the other hand is the new op shit i believe.
Are you bad? Pangolin is fine, how about stop FUCKING dwindling your dicks and actually learn the hero ok?
Ice3x had an outstanding as Pango offlane in Mski vs WG.Unity, top of the networth charts iirc
Goes to show Pango can dominate if played correctly, all these mentioned changes are irrelevant as of the moment. I mean Earth Spirit has something like a 40% winrate but Icefrog still continues to nerf him because of how good he is in the professional scene. Just because some random dummies are playing him wrong doesn't mean he's bad
How does iceiceice plays Pango in a pro game? It's not in Captain's Mode yet, right?
WTF https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3541626382
HOW?
OK Captain's Draft, got it.
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1) His Q does 25% of his attack damage per attack, instead of flat damage + procs, this means he still deals 100% damage in 4 attacks but he has 4 chances to proc his stuff
2) His W applies -armor to enemies instead of giving him the damage reduction, this works with his passive by his passive reducing the enemies' armor to 0, then this takes the enemies to the -armor territory
3) Give him a guaranteed passive proc with cooldown, a la brewmaster
4) Either rework this shit so it can be controlled or fix bugs that stop this shit from being useful, also make it uncancelable during the "channel" time because the ult is worse than sand king's ult anyways and goes on the cooldown just the same
5) Congratulations now the hero is actually OP but that's great because you can proceed to nerf him when people complain about specific things, instead of having him be the worst hero of all just after release