They are selfish and would rather have fun hitting creeps than spend time learning how to support.
they're the result of 2 years being told that;
- dont care about your teammates
-dont play support in low mmr
- play your own game, your teammates are bad, dont listen to them
as seen here on dotabuff almost every day
Jungle isn't that bad.
However, some HEROES in jungle are bad. I'm triggered by jungle LC or midas Furion every game. Get me out. Please.
Jungle is advantageous for ur team if ur laning stage is pretty solid. The jungler would naturally give more farm to the team effectively and increase the chance of winning.
Because Jumanji is going to be release in all cinemas on December 20, 2017.
Dota players just wanna have a prelude of how it feels to be trapped in an aeon of jungle gaming.
Because sometimes laning is not safe, so clearing out a large camp while the lane is pushed out is the only way to get XP. Not every situation is an ideal one where we can free farm the lane creeps.
![[Lk].Zano](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/b9/b98e01ce6ef4a5e926a44cdd1564d0e8e5fbfa36_full.jpg "[Lk].Zano")
^ Nobody is complaining about heroes retreating to the jungle if the lane is impossible to win/stay without dying. It's about people jungling from level 1.
Oh, in that case it's because they don't understand every aspect of a video game or they don't care about winning so much as having fun with a goofy playstyle. Both are perfectly normal human conditions.
Because they don’t read patch notes and they live in 2015 where only one support was needed and roamers wasn’t a thing
I'd 100% agree with @Positive Player, never understood why junglers were seen as selfish and detrimental to the team in previous patches. But in this patch jungling is absolutely trash, the people I've seen jungle in 7.07+ do it 'cause they're selfish or straight up ruiners, or best case scenario they have no idea how to play dota.
Jungle is never absolute trash unless u get to high mmr SLQ. Ppl in 4k are still somewhat inefficient and there's more than enough resources to go around.
Idk, I think that having a great laning phase now is the most important thing and a jungler can't help the solo offlaner nor rotate mid or safelane to help and secure kills in the first minutes. The offlane got weakened as well as the mid lane, and I'd rather have a pos 4 roaming to help these lanes than an afk jungler. Plus that 1 min creeps spawn is a pain in the ass, despite stacking ancients and trying to farm as fast as possible with Axe I always find myself behind in terms of levels and the item timings get delayed. Rip talon too. What I mean is, not only did jungle get nerfed, but they made changes to other lanes and to the meta that indirectly punished jungling even more.
Jungling is really bad right now.
I remember the days of 6 minute lvl 6 + dagger on LC. Back then, jungle LC was actually strong as fuck, just misplayed.
^ thats. and jungling in scenarios where you simply not allowed too. simply cause you have weak laners and enemy have roamer so its 5vs4, at that point your not allowed to jungle no matter what patch it is, it doesnt matter how farm you get if your lannes are completely stomped. or in scenarios when enemy have more flash farmers than you do it doesnt matter how much you farm in jungle they will still outfarm you , but hey how can a player that insta lock jungle everygame, thinks about those things lul.
^ thats so true, whem my team has a last pick jungle lc, i already know how retard the game will be, cuz if i knew that i ld have a jungler, culd pick a stronger laner, but no.
never liked junglers, and this patch its the worse thing, thnx osfrog for removing pms and iron talon, and nerfing the fuck out of jungle
i just won a game as jungle luna lmao. and had the most farm. jungle is not dead. also #sea5carryteam
^ @Jacked, Phase boots > Vangurd on enemy juggernaut save ur mmr ass lmao.
Back to topic.
Before jungle get nerfed so much <7.00
SO MUCH JUNGLERS IN MY GAMES : Drow, Juggernaut , Sven, LC (Ranked)
and you know what the fuck is so annoying? THEY BLAME THEIR TEAM FOR LOSING THE LANE
Thanks god. The jungler player decreased greatly from <7.00
They are absolutely unplayable and report worthy this patch, maybe in 6.88 you could play them, but once the 7.00 era started, laning stage just became wayyyyy too important. (even before the jungle nerfs) But now that the jungle nerfs are here, get the fuck out of here junglers.
To answer your question, they don't wanna support, or hate laning stage cause they have no type of laning mechanics or skill to beat another human in a 1v1 lane, there's no other reasons they'd play a jungler.
RPQ sama is totally right, back then you could literally get level 6 at 5 minutes with many heroes back in the 6.86-6.87 (maybe 6.88 too) (pre 7.00 era) and get a fast blink on top of that if you just jungled the big and medium camp only. People never expect a level 6 jungle legion at 5 minutes ganking the offlaner with a duel, I had a 65% jungle legion win rate, now my winrate on her is laughable, don't ask. lol I just play her offlane now, she's trash jungle. You even get later blinks now. Blood seeker jungles so slow now as well, before hitting 6 and 5 minutes was almost brainless with him.
Laning stage is just too important now jungle nerfs aside.
I remember lv 6 bloodseeker at 5 min.
That time when blood so strong that it is an easy .mmr
6.84 bloodseeker.
Get bounty rune and farm small camp, you are level 2 at minute 1 where you start getting +15-20 damage from bloodthirst.
7.07 bloodseeker.
Get bounty run and farm small camp at minute 1 and you are half a level away from level 2, have no extra damage, and even when you get level 2 you don't get any extra damage because enemy heroes have to be at 75% hp for you to even get a single +1 point of damage.
Don't worry though he had a bloodrite cooldown recently. Roflmao.
Maybe there should be a sign that states “afk jungling is bad for your teams mental health” next to the fountain.
i got like div 2 on my other acc by jungling
Basically, got carried by other people who didn't lose their lanes despite the position you put them in and by the enemies who didn't take advantage of the situation resulting in more net worth on your team by the 15 minute mark.
Quick maffs.
@cookie
for you it works!
but The problem here is people in low mmr barcket don't know when they have to pick jungler,when your lane is safe you don't have any reason to pick jungler.(like picking legion or wk and going afk jungle,fuck it!)
IceTea got to 5K on afk Lycan jungling then purely split pushing. Doesn't mean jack shit when his mechanical skill at literally every other aspect is 3K level at best.
haters be hating
tell me how easy it is when you climb to 5k++ with jungling.
IceTea got to 5K on afk Lycan jungling then purely split pushing. Doesn't mean jack shit when his mechanical skill at literally every other aspect is 3K level at best.
there's no way you can be worse than your enemies, lose every single lane every game and then somehow win the game.
in that logic someone not pressing buttons would be 10k
I just think that with the amount of impact lanes have on current the meta, having a jungler really makes it tough to win lanes resulting in a possible snowballing mid or a free farm carry on the other team. And while yes if you manage to win lanes you get more farm out of the map but that’s a big if. If you lose lanes while having a jungler which is the likelier of the two options in a 3-4K game, your jungler might have the most farm on your team but will only have half as much as their free farm carry or snowballing mid.
You can use that to your advantage, the fact that the enemy has more farm than you means they're gonna give a lot of gold/exp when you kill them.
It also makes it significantly more difficult to kill them. It would require them being too aggressive(which is common) and your team having good teamwork(very rare). However if everyone on your team is still off in lanes alone trying to get farm(very common) then their aggressiveness which just get them more and more kills.
or it would require a notepad and 5 minutes of basic math to calculate your DPS then simply executing it using various ways like pre-gank prepping or smoking up.
example:
let's say your enemy has 1500 hp but you can only do 1000 damage in a reasonable period of time
so then you go in once and make it look like you failed miserably, you throw 1-2 spells and let them do more damage to you, so they do let's say 1000 damage to you, you do 500 to them.
this gives them confidence that you can't kill them, you then go back like you're giving up, once you're out of their vision you instead run behind a tree and heal up then you just nuke the 1k hp remaining
there's countless tricks that you can do like this to make a gank work.
It's mostly a cycle of experience, especially in lower mmr
People trying the heroes, they are looking for guides, guides recommend jungles, mostly outdated ones
People see other people jungling with the hero, they are mimicking those people
Also, people at the very low mmr may not grasp yet the concept of lineups, not exactly out of selfishness but rather from lacj of understanding the entire draft. They see that a lane they want is taken, so they take the jungle
Selfishness is only those who do understand the needs of a lineup, and don't want to play a support.
Also there are the psychological drices, such as the fear pf being "beaten" by the enemies
@cookie are you talking about a jungler tanking a lane during laneing phase? Or like just taking a fight in the later part of the game? Because either way it really depends on the heroes you are playing against as well as the heroes on your team. However having jungler just reduces the amount of damage that you have in lanes total, assuming that jungler is afk jingling for the first 10-15 minutes which is usually what happens.
doesn't matter when you can leave the jungle, regardless if it's at 5 minutes or if it's at 15 the concept is the same.
Learn how to compenstate for a lost laning phase, just because you have a jungler doesn't mean you instantly lost, especially in low mmr.
this is a 6k avg game, we had jungle natures, offlane shadow fiend and i had to be roam and support.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3385565702
we lost all of our lanes, but i managed to coordinate them and win the game, just because i have the knowledge on how to compensate for a jungler/lost laning phase.
everyone can take a free win, but not everyone can make a guaranteed loss into a win.
I expierence in a lot of my games that by the time the jungler comes out of the jungle the rest of said junglers team is so underfarmed and under leveled that they are essentially no help and maybe the jungler is a fantastic player and can create some space so his team can catch up but I think his ability to do that is very dependent on the heroes on the other team. You also need to consider the emotional impact of having a jungler. It generally triggers your entire team resulting in them playing worse than usual.
As far as that game goes, I can’t get a great feel for the game obviously just from the dota buff but I would say that you were able to get the team coordinated early enough to bring it back. Had you waited 5 to 10 minutes I think it could’ve gone out of control. But obviously I’m not entirely sure because I have only seen the dotabuff.
that is what i call selective memory, you only remember when the junglers lost you games but you forget when they won you games. Or you'd remember when you won against junglers, but not lost to junglers.
the fact that that guy isn't going up nor down while playing jungle at some mmr means that he belongs there. That means his effectiveness in the game is the same as you laning.
Yah you’re probably right, when I posted this I was a little tilted by a couple losses with junglers. However I can see where a jungler can help win the game, I’m just not so sure he can win the game for the team. But thanks for responding to me about this. @cookie
Maybe you could check out my twitch sometime and explain to me what I’m doing wrong if I get a jungler. Thanks!
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They nerf the jungle like 4 patches in a row and people still do it. Why?