You don't buy Aquila or Wand on AM so the ideal timing is 11 minutes after Treads.
On other heroes like Jugg and PA 15 minutes is also good with the other additional items and Phase instead of Treads.
Jugg should get it slightly faster than PA if support stacks camps for him which he can clear with blade fury. PA and void, i'd assume roughly the same timing. After treads aquila wand like you said? 12,13 mins sounds ideal.
For PA it should be around 18 minutes.
That assumes 83 cs and 5 kills by 18 minutes. As PA there’s a bigger focus on getting early kills than just soloing creeps CS. Note that you need to go treads if you’re going battlefury so you can get more use out of it through farming. The extra damage of phase applies better with deso but it’s worse for farming since the attack speed loss is really noticeable.
Personally I always preferred the treads, Aquila, helm, battlefury, abyssal, satanic build over phase deso since you run around on such low HP you’re asking to die to nukes/cc. Then it takes too long to farm a bkb because you have a deso and phase rather than treads Aquila battlefury. The battlefury build sacrifices a little bit of damage against heroes for a far more reliable mid game. Treads Aquila and battlefury still gives the same extra damage as phase deso but with 13 extra potential strength (260hp) and you can always get the -4 armour talent at 15 which is 2/3rds of a deso’s minus armour and a much better choice than the 20% cleave which is only 1/3rd of a battlefury’s cleave plus it lacks the 60% extra damage against creeps which battlefury retains even though quelling blade is only a flat +24 now.
12 minute bfury treads aquila wand? Lads get me into some of those video games that's fucking insane. Try 15 minutes for a more reasonable timing.
Also if you aren't buying wand on AM you are wrong.
That assumes 83 cs and 5 kills by 18 minutes.
If you have 83 cs in 18 minutes as PA and you're mid or a safelane carry, if you're 4k+ you deserve a report, not a battlefury.
Yeah , since the removal of pms i buy wand on every safelane melee carry now . Starting item tango 2 branch stout mango 👌
^ RPQ if you have 83 cs and 5 kills it means you were fighting ergo not farming. If you are getting kills then you aren’t getting CS. 83 cs by 18 minutes is fine if you are picking up kills. It means about 4.5 creeps every minute which translates into about one creep wave per minute. If the other 30 seconds is spent on a combination of fighting, grabbing tunes, returning from base etc then it’s fine.
Eg in your second last PA game you had 5 kills and 31 cs by 18 minutes. The AM who died 4 times before 18 minutes had 95cs by that point (This was a very high skill game btw).
If you want to afk and have 140 cs by 18 minutes then you should be picking terrorblade instead. If you go PA you have to be getting kills prior to 20 minutes in addition to getting sufficient farm (eg at least approx 4 per minute).
83 cs by 18 minutes is fine if you are picking up kills
wrong wrong wrong in all fields
wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong
In my opinion, if you cant get battlefurry before 12 min on any other hero than Antimage, you just dont buy battlefurry.
Im noob ok but i feel ketting kills is good for exp dominance instead farming, if u have to tp out for it.
There are a lot of good players answering to this thread and thread ia almost over so anyone want to give some tips about it?
bf is more about who you are playing against and how you know the first 27 minutes will go than if you get 60 vs 70 vs 80 cs
if u are playing against tinker ww techies u know you will have trouble breaching hg/t2s. they also aren't too hot at pushing so if you get a bf they arent as likely to "punish" you for it and you can abuse it to accelerate gold/xp
even if you get a 17 minute bf, if the enemy team cant take map control or towers and you can farm freely it can be worth it (if you cant just win with a pushing build immediately). conversely, you can get a 12 minute BF on pa and lose the game if you are for example playing against a drow strat and have low depush for HG. Maybe if you had deso and morbid you would win a fight on rax instead of 21 minute GG
however its not simple because if they have a pushing team and your "win condition" centers around them failing to push hg, is it better to buy a farming item for when the game drags on? or a fighting item to ensure you actually reach your win condition. it really depends i guess and im far from an expert, my knowledge pretty much hasnt resulted in more than an extreme aversion to hand of midas and to a lesser extent BF
edit: you can get kills without sacrificing farm. 90 cs in 17-18 minutes is absolutely unacceptable for a position 1 or 2 hero. keep in mind if you kill enemy laner and have 20% hp you can just fly out regen to stay on the map. the primary failing of low mmr players is how slow they accumulate resources coupled with how slowly they react tp in the early game and how poorly they itemize and how little they understand vision and how much they undervalue roshan
83 is weird number and wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong
Okay JDF8 advises me I am wrong that 83 cs at 18 minutes if you are getting kills as PA is wrong.
Side note - in JDF8’s most recent two PA games he had 84 cs at 18 minutes (yes in both of them).
So I revise my statement to be 84 cs at 18 minutes is fine if you are getting kills.
Guys I've been playing jugg a lot lately with so so success. With wand phase Aquila in a good Lane with like 50-60 cs I still get it around 15-16 mins. Only faster if I get a lot of kills whilst maintaining same cs and maybe tier 1 tower gold.
Many times I got it at like 17 18 mins. Lol.
I find often times getting triggered by your supports is a good reason to just buy battlefury anyway if u can only complete by 20 mins because you can just afk farm and ignore your team.
HAHAHA 83 CS MIN 18 IS FINE
bruh i hate 3k players so much
1ks that can use spells and think they're super good
Ahah :)
Jd but if i tp out and i succed on getting kill/assist than i need to farm that lane till tp cd is refreshed right?
This is the only solution for not loosing farm.
And if so this need a rotation from the team ( the mid / off core have to move in the safelane).
Not sure if this is viable in pubs.
I usually tp only when im 95% sure to get kill/assist and than i jungle back to my lane but this is wrong i know...
I'm usually worried if enemy AM farms bfury by 12 mins because it means he'll pop up with a Manta very soon and his farm will go up exponentially.
Bfury around 15 mins is average and meh. Still very much recoverable.
Bfury after 18 mins is gg. Unless your team throws, it's in the bag.
in your bracket ( normal skill, which is where i am too) you can win with a 21 minute battle fury (I know because I've had my lane fucked over completely and gotten fury at 21 and still won). However, 16 minutes or sooner is ideal and what I usually aim for.
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what is the minimum time to build battle fury after treads,aquila and wand in safelane 3k^ above bracket?