Perfectly Balanced? - Pudge Roams All Pubs
Pudge is Dota’s most recognizable hero. His hero design is so enticing and popular among players that other games (Overwatch’s Roadhog) have made sure to incorporate heroes with a similar skillset. Hook is one of the most iconic abilities in the online multiplayer world, and it will always make the hero incredibly unique.
As popular as the hero may be, it hasn’t always been easy to keep him relevant. Playing him may, in itself, be very satisfactory. Though for the past few years, players haven’t always been able to combine the fun factor of the hero with actual success.
It’s difficult to balance a hero that is innately fun for the player themselves--to be not overpowered or overly annoying for everybody else in the game (see: Techies). So for the longest time, Pudge has almost exclusively stayed in the pub scene, and even there he’s never really been particularly successful. That has now changed.
Laning nightmare
It’s somewhat ironic that Pudge is a deadly roamer these days, when for the longest time, it’s been impossible to lane him properly. He seemed to fit no line-up and was never a successful roamer, but as roamers have become more acceptable and in fact a standard of sorts, Pudge has found a sweetspot.
Like any good roamer, Pudge will quite easily disrupt the opponent’s laning stage. The sheer fear and threat of a Hook can force a midlaner to play much more defensively and can force support rotations.
Responding to a roaming Pudge isn’t easy either, as the hero is quite tanky. Unlike a 
Riki or a 
Bounty Hunter, turning around to kill the roamer isn’t easy. It’s more like an 
Ogre Magi, who seems to be able to even dive towers without a hitch.
And that might be the closest comparison for Pudge--a tanky roamer that has a strong slow. Except Pudge will always also have Meat Hook. As good as any disable may be, Hook will be stronger in most scenarios. It is one of the strongest non-ultimate initiation spells, especially in the early game; it doesn’t put the user in harm’s way and it will draw in the enemy, away from safety.
Of course, Pudge is often picked because Hook allows for flashy (or rather fleshy?) plays that players have admired in highlight videos for years. But the spell is also really damn good in concept.
A better Batrider?
What allows Pudge to be a much bigger nuisance than he’s ever been is the addition of 
Aether Lens. The added range to Meat Hook allows him to be an even bigger threat around the map and with a mobility item, his initiation range can be twice as big as that of a Batrider.
Batrider is successful in competitive play, because he has a strong laning stage and will always farm up the crucial items he needs. His ultimate allows him to immediately pull an enemy out of position to gain a 5v4 advantage.
Pudge may not have a stable laning stage, in fact as a roamer it’s anything but stable. But he doesn’t need farm to do what Batrider does. He too can pull an enemy out of position and gain a 5v4 advantage. He can do it even better because he doesn’t need to be close to the target. In fact, he can, unlike Batrider, quite easily solo kill a target in most cases. Batrider often requires communication, which is partly why the hero is not popular in pubs.
Similar to Batrider, Pudge will, most of the time, itemize for mobility and utility. 
Blink Dagger and 
Force Staff are two great tools that allow him to pose a huge threat around the map and be the team’s initiator. 
Eul's Scepter of Divinity is also a great item, especially since cycloned targets can be hooked while still in the air--it’s an easy setup for a kill. Targets hooked like this will still receive the damage from Eul’s and thus can not blink out of Hook.
Balanced yes or no?
This month, Pudge is picked in 40% of all 5k+MMR games, and yet he still fields a 52% win rate - that is incredible. Last time a hero had similar success was Invoker at the beginning of this year. As a result, Icefrog saw it necessary to nerf Invoker. Could the same happen to Pudge?
It’s a different case for the heavy roamer, as the hero is almost completely ignored in competitive play. Wings Gaming have successfully integrated the hero into their pool, though the TI6 winner had a large hero pool to begin with. They have sparked a few other Pudge picks in China, most recently in the Boston Major Qualifier, but that is still nothing to speak of in comparison to Invoker’s reign in 6.86.
Pudge’s winrate is also not nearly as high as was the case with other nerf-worthy heroes. A roughly 53% win rate across all brackets says something about balance around the hero.
Nerf or no Nerf?
Regardless of how balanced Pudge may be, nerfs could be on the horizon. 
Rot’s slow at 30% is much higher than any slow on any other roamer--Ogre Magi coming in second with a 22% slow at level 1. In fact, both Riki and Bounty Hunter have had their slows nerfed quite significantly over the course of the past patches. Jinada was nerfed from a 25% MS slow at level 1 to 15%, while Smoke Screen’s slow suffered a similar fate with a nerf from 25% to 13% at level 1.
There’s a fair chance Pudge may suffer a similar fate, if his popularity in the competitive scene keeps rising. Batrider was nerfed repeatedly over the course of as many patches as one can remember, but that is because his skillset remains uniquely strong. If we assess Pudge’s skillset to be similarly strong, disregarding the fact that Hook is still a skillshot, could Pudge face similar nerfs? What if Hook no longer interrupted TPs/channels, similar to how Force Staff works?
Throughout the last few patches, Pudge has received significant buffs either directly (e.g. Dismember now healing without an Aghanim’s, Rot’s slow increase) or indirectly (e.g. introduction of Aether Lens, increase in HP gain per strength point). It seems almost as if he was bound to be nerfed now, to break the series of buffs he’s received.
For now, Pudge is in a good place. The most iconic hero in Dota is where he belongs, at the top of the pick percentages, with a respectable win rate. Though as long as the competitive scene doesn’t pay him the same respect, he may still fly under the radar. Once he does draw attention, there’s no telling what Icefrog might do to him.
First :D
Denied
What Icefrog might do to him <3 I like how this blogger wrote it.
next patch = pudge requires 2 boots to roam.
Yes, A nerf. Obviously, pro play is the main factor for determining the balance of the game more often than not, but a 52% win rate with a 40% win rate is just dumb. Maybe change pudge's hook to magical damage? I know it's a pretty big nerf, but when you have a 360 damage purenuke at level 7 it raises the question of whether or not it's fair. Basically, pudge solo kills way too easily- stuff like ogre magi isn't doing that.
Pudge's hook has same typical with Mirana's arrow.. High risk high rewards, so it depends on the player.. i think Rot's slowrate need to be nerf, from 25% to around 10-15% at level 1 then increase to 25% at level 4.. and then better decrease Hook's range at least 100 perlevel.. or give back the "Dismember no longer gain HP (without aghs)".
He's in a perfect balance right now, competitively speaking. He's getting a decent amount of picks, with a balanced win rate. Don't mind pubs. Plus, he also has many weaknesses. Really low mana pool for an unreliable initiate, low armor, etc.
I played Pudge as soft support since 2 years ago http://www.dotabuff.com/players/104298007/matches?hero=pudge
pudge is pretty balanced right now, unlike other previously op heros pudge has a ton of weaknesses: hes super slow at 285 base movespeed, has terrible armour (1 armour at lv 1 and about 9 armour at lv 25), and rot also hurts him jut as much as it hurts the enemy. most mids can outright kill a pudge even if he hooks them if pudge is not lv.6 , and some can do so even after lv 6. the meta is also full of hard to kill carries like terrorblade, void and morphling, heros who pudge cant solo kill. pudge also cant farm anything if he falls behind. even a support like crystal maiden can farm a few creeps and get some gold while pudge can rot down a camp with dismember and still lose half of his hp. his mana pool is also really tiny, and you will struggle if u are playing against OD or silencer.
That last sentence summarized what happened to omniknight almost instantly in the competitive scene, post-TI 6. As soon as he started to poke his head out beyond pubs--BOOM, big nerfs to repel and the heal.
Ugh, I seriously hope he gets nerfed to shit. I am so fucking tired of seeing his fat annoying ass in my games lol
kairogamers he has had around a 60% winrate for ages
No Nerf. Pudge has a good winrate in pub matches but not competitive matches. 30% Rot slow because it damages himself as well while others (you mentioned above) didnt. Plus one guy said change the Hook's Pure damage into Magical because 360 damage lvl 7 is sick, really ? Do hook have 100% Hit Rate ? You cant juke your enemy ? You never miss any of your hook ? Use your brain prease
Agree, pudge is one of the coolest hero to play, but theres always a risc u will miss a hook. Thats why its dmg is really well balance, success means better adventages. One thing that onky piss me off is how people can use Ulti with pudge while enemie is still beeing hooked, happens to me alot and I dont know wtf. Any macros? or maybe some binds I dont know about?
Icefrog won't do shit because the game is balanced around competitive, not pubs.
Well done. Pudge is rly unique hero and u may play him in a many ways, to be honest, u may play him as many roles u want(maybe except jngl). this is the reason of high percentage pickrate.
Balanced? OP for pub game .
https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/played this game just v a 7 hero I guess pub full of these stuff .
pa -pudge -legion -sniper couse ? they had no balance dagger gives higherdamage then lına's ulti and hook is epic if u got agh ur better than lına's ultimate too sniper got toomuch range with lance he must fixed too . icefrog don't cares pub .or other players if they had a 1 of them u fcd up .
try to counter pa with troll in 70's ill works but today ucant do anything
If they make hook not interrupt channeling I can already see the amount of fuck-ups of Pudge hooking an SK channeling his ult...
(not that that's a bad thing)
Changing hook pure damage to magical would be a good nerf for now I think. It actually used to be 400 magical damage but got buffed to be 360 pure damage in 1 patch, which I deemed as a completely unnecessary buff since he has always been a very popular and fun to play hero
"kairogamers he has had around a 60% winrate for ages"
Yes, i know. but i'm talking about his competitive play.
Pudge is clearly balanced hero without a shadow of a doubt. Nowdays people thinks that pudge is so strong and can win any game easily. Ofc this is not senseful. Every pro pudge players know that one who wanna be good players on pudge, must play pudge on mmr games so many times because of experience that is everything for pudge. Also, if pudge cant do his job in early game (that job is exectly not as easy as people think, he ll be useless during the rest of the game.
as long as he is NOT popular in the pro scene, he wont receive much lets be real.
omniknight has been the most bullshit hero for the longest time without being touched with forever, until this month when he started to get popular in pro scene.
for the people that are saying to change hook from pure to magical dmg, they should first do that to purification tbh.
Icefrog, nerf this stupid hero please? Too much buff already for pudge, several patches in row. Now people spam it like cancer, either pros or newbie. DotA is getting worst lately :(
well i already said in the other thread that he's the most op hero in dota atm, what a time to make this blog post.
pudge is fine. He scares all those Sniper fuccbois hahah
Tired of pudge? Theres so many counter hero for him alrd.
Roaming pudge (pos 4) specifically, doesnt have that much farm if he fckd up so much at early game. Even if he manage to land some of hooks early to mid game, pudge as pos 4 wont really buy bkb as he needs some mobility and do his jobs (wards, etc.)
So wanna punish this pudge easily? Take timber, or necro. No matter how fat pudge can easily taken by them.
Pudge as mid :
Current meta cant really let pudge dominate mid. Except if the opposing mid doesnt know how to deal with him.
So, do guys still think Pudge OP? He still have weaknesses, and you have to abuse them.
P.S : I love Pudge, but I just play him in a few of my games if I see him fit.
Cheers.
I'm surprised no one noticed the typo "we asses" lul. Third paragraph from the bottom.
May seem balanced but is annoying asf with a blink dagger dismember and hook.
@Mitšui_ "Current meta cant really let pudge dominate mid."
Well, if he's against any ranged hero, and he gets a superior block that leads to them fight on his side of the river, he can easily walk up and rot the enemy mid to death. Even many melee heroes cant outtank him at lvl1, so he can do the same.(double gauntlet and faerie)
Nerf his ability to deny himself please.
Dagon Pudge is still legit
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SD
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As someone who has repeatedly spammed this hero for a few years, I feel he's in a good spot. The many buffs he's been receiving nicely offset the other negative factors of the hero (e.g. low base armor, lack of mobility, and the fact that his most useful ability is, after all a skillshot).
Pudge could really do with some nerfs, he's a situational pick in most games, yet he shows up nearly every game and often contributes very little.
Edit: Not because he's OP, but because he tends to be played by griefers who seem to think you win Dota by having the highest "KDA"
Only thing i know is pa dagger, lets say 'OP'.And Anti mage early game is ridicules also,blink high armor.
My opinion, no hating
Pudge rot is very OP and needs to be nerfed for sure, something to 25% or less. T
I think pudge is in a perfect place now, for me he was never a serious threat to me at any laning phase.
LMAO!!
Everyday until techies is buffed.
Чёртова имба, этот ваш Падж.
Убавить урон хуку, уменьшить замедление от вонялки, переделать аганим: вместо имбохуков дать кд хука среднее между обычным и агнанимным сейчас и дать урон хука как сейчас + увеличить длительность и/или урон ульты. Уменьшить скорость передвижения паджа под вонялкой. Всё.
С одной стороны - он продолжит роумить, у него всё тот же хук, только теперь он не будет соло убивать любого героя комбой хук+вонялка даже без тычек.
И при этом в лейте он будет полезнее - собираешь аганим бкб и отключаешь вражеского керри из игры на много времени.
А то что сейчас, это сраная имба, особенно на лоу ммр, где пудж соло может сделать всю игру до 20 минуты.
it's not like rot somehow giving you op slow, anyone who think is soooo godly skill is either delusional or living in fantasy world.
I've never tried that. and may never do it. you got to be too nerd to try and want to play pudge sup. the same with pa sup. haha
molehills out of mountains.
and then people follow your dumb fuck meta assumptions like sheep.
омномном
Nerf that bitch
He has a High skill cap to learn to begin with and to land hooks vs any good player is rare because hooks are easy to dodge like arrows and a buff to Pudge would not at all be game breaking and Pudge can be easy countered even with a farmed Pudge so in my OPINION buff the Pudge