"If even only 1 player has his stats on private there's no DBR."
Wrong.
It depends on exactly how the API has been changed. It could be thata 1 person private breaks everything, but it could also be that 1 person public makes the entire game public.
People saying this is a stupid move by Valve are obviously eastern european retards (No, not Russians, even Russians know this move by Valve is entirely legit).
Anyone that played HoN(Heroes of Newerth) knows just how much of a stat-discrimiation fest it was. Every single game, we checked stats of randoms to see what heroes they would play best.
I'm pretty terrible at DotA but I still wanna see my DBR. How do I enable the thurd-party share s option in Steam? Did some googling but can't find any info.
Bad move Valve, ratings makes things organized, and being able to see ratings that measures yourself is good for gamers that wants to improve their game. If those who are "crying" about stats going public are truly "casuals" then why the f--- should they care. Its because they are not casual players, they are just baddies who are afraid.
Not much worries though, genuine players with competitive edge and mindset gonna open their stats anyways. If things go smoothly, most of the community will have their stats open, and for the "garbage casuals" (not genuine casuals, but just the crying baddies. Got no beef with genuine casuals) gonna get chewed on for not having balls to open their stats anyways. So just spread words about this, people would want to see where they stand anyways except "garbage casuals".
So, let's wait and see and hope for the better future of DBR, hopefully where the "garbage casuals" will just gonna play circle jerks among themselves in the dumpster where they belong anyways. For the true casuals, game on. Nothing to be ashamed and getting mad about here, I just do not like the word casuals being used as a front by terribad players who cannot take the fact that they are just bad.
Lol at people saying that it is not competitive enough.
>Pubs
>Competitive
Pick One.
There is nothing competitive about pub games, and anyone who says anything otherwise is just an insecure person who doesn't realize that everything is casual in pubs and wants to feel better for all those hours put in.
So you have to be a pro player to enjoy competetiveness? i enjoy good pub games where try their best.. even if iam shit that doesnt change anything just cuz ur a faggot scared of ppl seeing your stats. i DOnt get it iam shit yet i dont care if ppl see my stats even if iam the lowest of the low
What competitiveness? There is no competitiveness in the first place in pubs. Unless you are playing in tournaments you are playing for fun like every other "Bronze scum" that there is. The only difference between you and the people who just joined dota 2 is that you have more matches and may be better than them. You are certainly not more "competitive".
you scumbags just dont understand this game has no way of tracking your improvment (besides the poor bracket system) i dont care if i can see my teams rating but i would like to be able to see global rating and my own so i can track if iam improving.
Valve didn't kill Dotabuff, dotabuff shot themselves in the head. Valve made it clear that they did not want this in the first place by not implementing one themselves. Dotabuff went too close to the sun and got burned in the process. Tough Shit. It's Valve's game and they can do a they please.
Valve are stupid fuckers, they ruin anything they touch.
Cs1.5 > 1.6 > Global Trash > Source.
Now Dota1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DOta2.
OK so if DBR is calculated by the dota buff staff, not real MMR. And lets say all the low MMR players choose not to reveal their stats, does that mean, that an average player will get in bronze, just because he is compared to better players (if we assume only good players will reveal their stats) :?
No, it means that DBR cannot be calculated if they dont have the rating of all players.
DBR as any elo based rating is obtained by calculating a loss/gain after every single match based on your rating compared to the rating in of EVERY PLAYER in that match. To know the rating of every player in the match, their full history needs to be available, as well as the history of every player they played with. So you need to have every single match ever in your database to calculate ratings.
DB already has all the matches up till now, all 100+ million of them. The question whether DBR can continue to be calculated is only whether they will continue to have access for match data for every match in the future or not. And they only need the match result and who was in it, nothing else.
I think the point of this, is to stop DB to start obtaining cash, as they are also the creater of ELOBUFF, where you can pay monthly to see the ELO of all other players.
Well DBR would not be official (Valve) rating so it would be meaningless anyway. Even small variations in the calculation algorithm would compound over hundreds of games to give quite a bit uncertainty regarding the DBR accuracy. So if people are willing to pay to someone to use their own calculations on public data to show them a "number" - more power to them. DB provides a nice service to the community and if they find a way to monetize it without abusing anything, great for them.
Matchmaking match results are not private data - DEAL WITH IT!
Anyone played WC3 Dota on dota-league.com? There was amazing rating system (you started at 1000, got +5 for win, -3 for loss, -10 for leaving, if you dropped under 950 I think, you got permabanned, multiaccounting was impossible) which involved punishment for leaving and flaming (honestly, the report system was amazing, you got Penalty points, based on reports that had to be individualy investigated and claimed by evidence - screenshots of flaming, replay for abusive behaviour etc. - you couldn't get penalty for bad play or feeding unless it was clear you did it on purpose - if you got 5 PPs, you got temp. ban, and those PPs would last for 3 months and if you managed to get 20 you got permabanned - goodbye flamers). Once you got higher rating or passed VIP test games you could get into VIP league. Up there, there was no flaming at all, maybe once and you could report that guy and he WOULD get PPs. Nobody cared about your rating as long as you didn't ruin the game on intent or flamed like a douchebag. You could track your progress, get to know better people and have fun. Here, people have no fucking repercussions for what they do, report system is an absolute failure and MMR sucks as well. And I happen to play good games most of the time in Dota 2, but still it's worse than it was on Dota-leagu.
The Match History requirement seems more of a limitation against Dotabuffs general statistics on players, rather than against a DBR system, does it not?
A rating system can still easily be made without accessing any individual person's match history. For example: Just use the Web API to look at every game that is played, giving each player a 1500 starting rating, store it in your database, and adjust it based on win /loss and the rating of the other team, elo style.
Valve's change messes up peoples individual player pages but not setting up a rating system like above, right? If Dotabuff doesnt make something like that public I'm sure someone else will.
why some people think you need every single match recorded for DBR to function properly... I doubt you need much more than 25% of all matches to get usable statistics and probably anywhere past 50% of all matches recorded will produce DBR's more accurate than the average players game to game skill variance anyways.
Because they had claimed that the point of DBR was to put a players skill into a tangible number, and then promptly base it off the team. Meaning it is no different than w/l, except that it gives and takes numbers based off others DBR rather than always taking the same amount. This essentially makes it completely pointless, and is relying on itself to calculate the stat. On top of this, it will put players who don't have as many games below the skill level of someone that has many games, even if they are the same player with the same stats (Or, if the player is bad, it will make the one with more games worse, the flaw goes both ways).
Isn't this how matchmaking in general works? It gives you a starting number of rating and gives averages to the whole team. And you get/lose rating depending on the average of the enemy team.
And that doesn't make players that have more games higher rated. (if they have the same win loss ratio against the same rated teams)
You're not entirely correct Infinite.. if the formula is simply DBR rating vs other DBR ratings then there's a fixed amount of DBR you can take and it will be transferred to the players who win the most games against others with DBR rating.
I'm pretty sure this is not the formula but rather your wild idea of how it works :)
But given this scenario then it would still work in the long run, since if you play against much worse opponents you gain less and risk losing much more. Just like it worked in HoN.
Hopefully Dotabuff has an advanced formula that people don't spend time figuring out (yeah, longshot!) which would leave it as a nice indication of players skill compared to the playerbase.
Deveon, I'm not sure what you mean. I'm getting this info directly from the sneak peek, and I'm not sure why you think that people would accumulate DBR and that there is a fixed amount. Maybe you are misunderstanding me?
All I did was restate this:
"The only factors considered in determining the change in your rating is match outcome and skill difference between players."
@laoche: It does make people who play more games have an advantage. Say you play 1000 games at 51% win. This means that you get points for each time you win, and lose points everytime you lose. Lets say every game will be 1 point (in reality all the games would have different points of course due to not playing against the same team, but should work for an example). So you have a total of 510 points - 490 points = 20 points. Now, lets say I also win 51% of my games, but only play 100 games. So I have 51 points - 49 points = 2 points.
I don't get what the difference of being able make your stats private or not.. If you are good enough, you'll be matched with people around your MMR and you will have your "competitive" pub games where everyone plays seriously. Making stats private doesn't affect that whereas all it does is create opportunity for people to flame others when losing : "YOUR MMR IS THE LOWEST, MUST HAVE LOST BECAUSE OF YOU ALL REPORT HIM!"
Being able to set your stats to private doesn't make the game more "casual" because the Valve MMR is still in place and it'll be the same as last time before the stats.dota2.be site was up.
So for those who say Valve doing this makes the game less "competitive", please tell me how does being able to see how good a person is makes the game more "competitive"?
There's absolutely no reason that the DBRankings shouldn't be live and public.
I'm totally brand new to the DotA series and I've only been playing a week but It only makes sense for this to be live and public.
I came from SC2 where rankings play a huge part in your online experience and no matter what your ranking high or low, nobody wanted the ranking feature removed, it only makes sense to have one.
I don't know all the logistics but I hope all this sweet data doesn't go to waste. :(
Where to find this option? "- Added a privacy setting in the UI so that players can specify whether they want to allow external 3rd party websites to be able to access their match history (defaulted to private)."
No more kids trying to claim to be good (and lucky not to be matched with feeders) in public matchmaking
If you want to be recognized for being a good Dota 2 player, enter a tournament with your own team. Individual stats in a team based game have no relevance at all anyway
maybe valve gonna to public MMR soon.but it obivious stupid move this time
Sad that dotabuff match stats for players will be crippled too because of this..
Wrong.
It depends on exactly how the API has been changed. It could be thata 1 person private breaks everything, but it could also be that 1 person public makes the entire game public.
People saying this is a stupid move by Valve are obviously eastern european retards (No, not Russians, even Russians know this move by Valve is entirely legit).
Anyone that played HoN(Heroes of Newerth) knows just how much of a stat-discrimiation fest it was. Every single game, we checked stats of randoms to see what heroes they would play best.
time to feed fuckers ./.
I'm pretty terrible at DotA but I still wanna see my DBR. How do I enable the thurd-party share s option in Steam? Did some googling but can't find any info.
Bad move Valve, ratings makes things organized, and being able to see ratings that measures yourself is good for gamers that wants to improve their game. If those who are "crying" about stats going public are truly "casuals" then why the f--- should they care. Its because they are not casual players, they are just baddies who are afraid.
Not much worries though, genuine players with competitive edge and mindset gonna open their stats anyways. If things go smoothly, most of the community will have their stats open, and for the "garbage casuals" (not genuine casuals, but just the crying baddies. Got no beef with genuine casuals) gonna get chewed on for not having balls to open their stats anyways. So just spread words about this, people would want to see where they stand anyways except "garbage casuals".
So, let's wait and see and hope for the better future of DBR, hopefully where the "garbage casuals" will just gonna play circle jerks among themselves in the dumpster where they belong anyways. For the true casuals, game on. Nothing to be ashamed and getting mad about here, I just do not like the word casuals being used as a front by terribad players who cannot take the fact that they are just bad.
<most of the community will have their stats open>
Haha, sure boy.
<insults, insults, insults>
Yeah, alright. Mature person.
Lol at people saying that it is not competitive enough.
>Pubs
>Competitive
Pick One.
There is nothing competitive about pub games, and anyone who says anything otherwise is just an insecure person who doesn't realize that everything is casual in pubs and wants to feel better for all those hours put in.
Pubs are casual and always will be.
Cached data is an issue. They can use all the data they collected till now for ratings.
So you have to be a pro player to enjoy competetiveness? i enjoy good pub games where try their best.. even if iam shit that doesnt change anything just cuz ur a faggot scared of ppl seeing your stats. i DOnt get it iam shit yet i dont care if ppl see my stats even if iam the lowest of the low
^^ yes, Starcraft pubbing is highly casual. DotA pub leagues are also highly casual. Even LoL Ranked pub mode is also very casual if you ask me.
What competitiveness? There is no competitiveness in the first place in pubs. Unless you are playing in tournaments you are playing for fun like every other "Bronze scum" that there is. The only difference between you and the people who just joined dota 2 is that you have more matches and may be better than them. You are certainly not more "competitive".
^ Have you ever played Starcraft or in DotA pub leagues? Or even as i said, LoL Ranked Pub? Do you consider those things casual?
fucking babysitters...
Valve <3
They are trying to make casual dota based in e-penis.
you scumbags just dont understand this game has no way of tracking your improvment (besides the poor bracket system) i dont care if i can see my teams rating but i would like to be able to see global rating and my own so i can track if iam improving.
Valve didn't kill Dotabuff, dotabuff shot themselves in the head. Valve made it clear that they did not want this in the first place by not implementing one themselves. Dotabuff went too close to the sun and got burned in the process. Tough Shit. It's Valve's game and they can do a they please.
DOTABUFF @DOTABUFF
@TreZc0_ We had an open dialog with Valve. this caught us completely off guard. :(
u fail son
Valve are stupid fuckers, they ruin anything they touch.
Cs1.5 > 1.6 > Global Trash > Source.
Now Dota1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DOta2.
ITT: Butthurt and probably all sub 1200 DBR scum.
OK so if DBR is calculated by the dota buff staff, not real MMR. And lets say all the low MMR players choose not to reveal their stats, does that mean, that an average player will get in bronze, just because he is compared to better players (if we assume only good players will reveal their stats) :?
^ That's exactly what it means.
TL;DR this whole thread :
shitty jew website tries to implement a jew tactic and valve cut their shitty jew heads off.
now fuck off please.
www.Elobuff.com
take a look at this fucking bullshit rofl
valve is just so bad
No, it means that DBR cannot be calculated if they dont have the rating of all players.
DBR as any elo based rating is obtained by calculating a loss/gain after every single match based on your rating compared to the rating in of EVERY PLAYER in that match. To know the rating of every player in the match, their full history needs to be available, as well as the history of every player they played with. So you need to have every single match ever in your database to calculate ratings.
DB already has all the matches up till now, all 100+ million of them. The question whether DBR can continue to be calculated is only whether they will continue to have access for match data for every match in the future or not. And they only need the match result and who was in it, nothing else.
I think the point of this, is to stop DB to start obtaining cash, as they are also the creater of ELOBUFF, where you can pay monthly to see the ELO of all other players.
No wonder why DCM guy want to hide his DBR/Stats :D:D
guys guys guys just use hero performance bars to track improvement
oh wait i forgot that garbage is broken since release
nvm
Well DBR would not be official (Valve) rating so it would be meaningless anyway. Even small variations in the calculation algorithm would compound over hundreds of games to give quite a bit uncertainty regarding the DBR accuracy. So if people are willing to pay to someone to use their own calculations on public data to show them a "number" - more power to them. DB provides a nice service to the community and if they find a way to monetize it without abusing anything, great for them.
Matchmaking match results are not private data - DEAL WITH IT!
@EGOIST <3'Hoang
because he is funkin scrub without 10 smorfs
amiright, huh?
Anyone played WC3 Dota on dota-league.com? There was amazing rating system (you started at 1000, got +5 for win, -3 for loss, -10 for leaving, if you dropped under 950 I think, you got permabanned, multiaccounting was impossible) which involved punishment for leaving and flaming (honestly, the report system was amazing, you got Penalty points, based on reports that had to be individualy investigated and claimed by evidence - screenshots of flaming, replay for abusive behaviour etc. - you couldn't get penalty for bad play or feeding unless it was clear you did it on purpose - if you got 5 PPs, you got temp. ban, and those PPs would last for 3 months and if you managed to get 20 you got permabanned - goodbye flamers). Once you got higher rating or passed VIP test games you could get into VIP league. Up there, there was no flaming at all, maybe once and you could report that guy and he WOULD get PPs. Nobody cared about your rating as long as you didn't ruin the game on intent or flamed like a douchebag. You could track your progress, get to know better people and have fun. Here, people have no fucking repercussions for what they do, report system is an absolute failure and MMR sucks as well. And I happen to play good games most of the time in Dota 2, but still it's worse than it was on Dota-leagu.
@Dr. Ira i will call you that.
I'm not so cruel and heartless as you might think ):
I never said he was a scrub, but judging by his match history he might not be that good :)
The Match History requirement seems more of a limitation against Dotabuffs general statistics on players, rather than against a DBR system, does it not?
A rating system can still easily be made without accessing any individual person's match history. For example: Just use the Web API to look at every game that is played, giving each player a 1500 starting rating, store it in your database, and adjust it based on win /loss and the rating of the other team, elo style.
Valve's change messes up peoples individual player pages but not setting up a rating system like above, right? If Dotabuff doesnt make something like that public I'm sure someone else will.
@TFU the hero bars are a hilariously awful way of figuring out anything
why some people think you need every single match recorded for DBR to function properly... I doubt you need much more than 25% of all matches to get usable statistics and probably anywhere past 50% of all matches recorded will produce DBR's more accurate than the average players game to game skill variance anyways.
@TFU
You mean like DBR will be? If their "sneak peek" is any indication, it doesn't work. At all.
@Infinite
How does their sneak peek indicate its not working at all?
Because it is similar to Valve matchmaking. Which is shit.
@Laoche
Because they had claimed that the point of DBR was to put a players skill into a tangible number, and then promptly base it off the team. Meaning it is no different than w/l, except that it gives and takes numbers based off others DBR rather than always taking the same amount. This essentially makes it completely pointless, and is relying on itself to calculate the stat. On top of this, it will put players who don't have as many games below the skill level of someone that has many games, even if they are the same player with the same stats (Or, if the player is bad, it will make the one with more games worse, the flaw goes both ways).
Isn't this how matchmaking in general works? It gives you a starting number of rating and gives averages to the whole team. And you get/lose rating depending on the average of the enemy team.
And that doesn't make players that have more games higher rated. (if they have the same win loss ratio against the same rated teams)
You're not entirely correct Infinite.. if the formula is simply DBR rating vs other DBR ratings then there's a fixed amount of DBR you can take and it will be transferred to the players who win the most games against others with DBR rating.
I'm pretty sure this is not the formula but rather your wild idea of how it works :)
But given this scenario then it would still work in the long run, since if you play against much worse opponents you gain less and risk losing much more. Just like it worked in HoN.
Hopefully Dotabuff has an advanced formula that people don't spend time figuring out (yeah, longshot!) which would leave it as a nice indication of players skill compared to the playerbase.
Deveon, I'm not sure what you mean. I'm getting this info directly from the sneak peek, and I'm not sure why you think that people would accumulate DBR and that there is a fixed amount. Maybe you are misunderstanding me?
All I did was restate this:
"The only factors considered in determining the change in your rating is match outcome and skill difference between players."
@laoche: It does make people who play more games have an advantage. Say you play 1000 games at 51% win. This means that you get points for each time you win, and lose points everytime you lose. Lets say every game will be 1 point (in reality all the games would have different points of course due to not playing against the same team, but should work for an example). So you have a total of 510 points - 490 points = 20 points. Now, lets say I also win 51% of my games, but only play 100 games. So I have 51 points - 49 points = 2 points.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that is the way I see it.
I don't get what the difference of being able make your stats private or not.. If you are good enough, you'll be matched with people around your MMR and you will have your "competitive" pub games where everyone plays seriously. Making stats private doesn't affect that whereas all it does is create opportunity for people to flame others when losing : "YOUR MMR IS THE LOWEST, MUST HAVE LOST BECAUSE OF YOU ALL REPORT HIM!"
Being able to set your stats to private doesn't make the game more "casual" because the Valve MMR is still in place and it'll be the same as last time before the stats.dota2.be site was up.
So for those who say Valve doing this makes the game less "competitive", please tell me how does being able to see how good a person is makes the game more "competitive"?
If you are good enough, you'll be matched with people around your MMR and you will have your "competitive" pub games where everyone plays seriously
maybe in lol or hon but not in dota 2
There's absolutely no reason that the DBRankings shouldn't be live and public.
I'm totally brand new to the DotA series and I've only been playing a week but It only makes sense for this to be live and public.
I came from SC2 where rankings play a huge part in your online experience and no matter what your ranking high or low, nobody wanted the ranking feature removed, it only makes sense to have one.
I don't know all the logistics but I hope all this sweet data doesn't go to waste. :(
Where to find this option? "- Added a privacy setting in the UI so that players can specify whether they want to allow external 3rd party websites to be able to access their match history (defaulted to private)."
No more kids trying to claim to be good (and lucky not to be matched with feeders) in public matchmaking
If you want to be recognized for being a good Dota 2 player, enter a tournament with your own team. Individual stats in a team based game have no relevance at all anyway