I think Shaman is a bad pick 'cause in 3k people don't know games can last 20 minutes instead of the usual 50. And if you don't push early, Shaman loses its effectiveness in the late game.
For this reason I suggest you to pick heroes that are still valuable in the late game, that don't require many items to have an impact and can zone out well/offer sustain in lane: Jakiro, Winter Wyvern, Omniknight.
Exactly, whenever I play shaman I feel I can set the tempo by getting kills then taking towers. It makes the game fee a lot easier. I won like 2/2 of my calibration games with him and plan to use the rest as him. All around 30 mins
Io, works in normal and high skill bracket. Check my recent games. Started playing him a few days ago and my matches are all green now.
Except for that one loss where my Tinker throwed.
Jakiro..
i just finished spamming him.. lockdown, push, DPS plus he's incredibly tanky for a support, that is.
as long as u have boots(mana or tranquil) and magic stick ur good to go..
I love wd but he can sustain a push but can’t push himself. Unless cask bouncing counts as a push. Jakiro is also close to “spam worthy” support because he’s just always an ok pick.
Shaman is strong even in late if he got farm properly.
Venge magic missile is solid and Swap can turn the tide of game.
Earth Spirit only can't push but not effective in lower bracket with shitty draft.
Sky berry soft but deal ridiculous amount of dmg from zoning since lvl.1 till late game.
sky lacks a stronger slow or a stun imo. you need the atoss asap, i'd rather play him as 4 or even 2 when theres no physical dps on enemy team
Hi dude same mmr.
Im mainly a support player.
Ita not true games in this bracket last 50 + minutes btw.
First think what are the most picked / strongest core in this meta.
For our bracket this mean : medusa thinker spectre sven centaur .
The early meta stay on the magic abuse and cc.
This mean best support to pick are:
Dazzle. Lion. Distruptor.
Dazzle is safe support if you are going to babysitt.(beware axe)
Lion is aggro supp if you need to zone out mana dependent hero and gank others lane , also his nuke wtf.
Distruptor is always good can cover welll a lot of jobs.
Mentionable options :oracle as safe,
Shaman as pusher ganker ,venge as aggro versatile.
Lich as lane dominator
theres a reason why shaman has a high wr.
what other support let's u take towers man (maybe jak and warlock somewhat)?
can disable for years.
good wave clear/farming
great ultimate.
hardest fucking right clicker at level 1 as a ranged hero. wtf
can rat
can ks easily. lul
people mentioning shit like lion y'al are high or something.
Might end up playing shaman for a while. Last few games while the jerkoffs were farming and taking bad fights I push lanes lanes and TAKE towers.not just pressure like actually destroy them. It’s like a case of the rat but you don’t need that many items and death isn’t that bad. And you can also group up and fight. Shaman can make a good team great because of this fact
Winter and lion are the best heros to spam right now.. cause they have received significant buffs this patch
Shaman
Pudge
WW
Dunt try picking jakiro if u dunt know how,max third as soon as possible and buy dagger.Its core on jakiro
I always meet useless jakiro player on my team cuz they dunt know how to harras or push with 1st and 3rd, only leech exp
And Last match, i killed AM with manta bf aghanim 1 by 1 with shaman.This hero is so sick, u can disable any hero forever
Lich is braindead enough that even I could get to 5k with him. Just learn when you can be aggressive, and attack move well and you should be able to win most lanes. He lacks disables, but you can itemize around what your team needs because you're so item independent. His talents more than make up for the recent ice armor nerfs. Getting 120 damage at lvl 15 is way better than the 150 at 20, and that 25 ice armor talent can give your team Alch levels of regen.
I've been using the term "valuable" instead of "viable" for months like a retard and no one said anything?
Since when Jakiro needs dagger btw? Also I think his skill build is very versatile and depends on the what kind of lane you're in/who you're against/what objectives your team has in the early game.
Yea shaman is great but only in certain cases.
Dont overestimate him...
Laning phase.
He falls off against constant damage dealers like bristle or centaur.
He fall against double lanes, shaman have a great cc that deal damage also but its a channel, its risky against 2 enemy.
Its harass is bad due to this.yea he got high damage but 400 range.....
So... U pick ss when u have a carry that comes up early (sven ursa etc..)
Also u can play him as pos 4
When your team lacks push and cc.
In conclusion there are better support around as i sayd before.
TIER 2 (i can be wrong here, may be worste)
The reason is the game ia changed and the early laning phase is much important.
I feel like the lower you get in brackets, the stronger Shadow Shamans disables get. In your bracket you can easily pick off the enemy carry with wards and shackles because nobody will tp. If you want to play Shaman, try being the ultimate controller aka go blink, glimmer cape, force staff, even BKB just so you can get off your disables on the enemy core without somebody interrupting you. Your opponents wont focus you down, wont buy lotus orb or glimmer cape or if they buy it, they won't use it. And if you're loosing you can still go back to a split pushing Shaman.
When I play with high ranked friends and pick support, I'm often surprised who good players will kill heroes like Shaman and Lion first in every fight because of the massive disables they provide and because they're easy to kill. In lower skilled games, people usually try to kill the enemy carry or mid lane first so you can be a lot more useful.
whats been really significantly buffed about lion?
if anything the 1v9 potential of lion was nerfed, coz aether lens is a core item but it no longer gives spell amp, so you need a kaya; but the alternative to the GPM talent (which would allow Lion to get these items easily) is too good to pass up (Finger damage)...
lion is better than shaman coz u can snowball LUL
inb4 tusk
also his hex is better than shamans.
@Dota 2: and how often a support 5 shaman reach lvl 25 in your bracket?
Whit refresher and aghanim obv...
shaman hex cd sounds so good to me
the cast range is probably realistically the better option, but i always take the hex cd because of the potential
if u have a shaman with blink u can get a fuckton of xp. blink aghs at 40 minutes (3rd rosh) is easy as fuck
Murder: why would you buy kaya or eather lens on lion?
Wait lens ia viable but there are better items, kaya just never.
He need staff blink glimmer urn athos...at least an octarine if you are rich as fuck
You are here for supporting not for dps technically
Blink and aghs at 40 min dont mean he is 25 whit refresher and agha ....
But no 1 item for you team are they ok whit that?
Kaya on supprots :V
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3599603940
rosh drops a refresher orb btw u fucking lemming
"if he has 25 and roshfresher agh you literally cannot lose if you get to their t4s" basically if you've already stomped the game or if it's a 60 minutes match in which everyone managed to get their items and lvls lmao. All supports are strong at 25, with roshfresher, aghs and if you already broke hg. Jakiro can double ulti and it goes through magic immunity+double aoe stun, AA aghs with 4% threshold on ulti talent, WW can get 2 cores killed, even perseverance-phase boots Undying could win under those conditions. 2 tombstones, imagine how much vision they'd provide!11!
But Shaman shines only for ganks, in the laning stage and IF your team is capable of grouping up early and take objectives. Which doesn't happen very often in 3k. Also I think the most important thing in 2-3k is to keep people alive as much as possible, since they tend to dive a lot with the risk of dying, engage in bad fights, go yolo and stuff. To me, especially in that bracket, healers > everyone else
I would pick from one of these every game depending on what fits best:
Bane
Shaman
Jakiro
Lion
Whats a lemming?
Wtf is this game? XD
Dota 2quote:"if he has 25 and roshfresher agh you literally cannot lose if you get to their t4s"
Write better next time.
I recommend
For 5 position: WW, Bane, Venge, Lion, Orge
For 4 position:
Sladar, Clock, Rubick(situational), eshaker, undying
the guy above me said ss lategame is weak, thats why i mentioned his 25
25 is not a realistic goal for ss to have by the third rosh. lv18-20 and blink +aghs is, even buying wards
I didnt say he is weak lategame xD
But talking about the cc's lion is stronger lategame, more sustain \surv.
His ulti on low brackets its a threat to fight whit in lategame.
In high brackets i dont think\know.
And in fact that's why I replied :D
The situation you described is literally an idyllic scenario in which every support would win. I mean aghs, lvl 25, roshfresher and hg, who wouldn't?
But take Shaman and put him in an average mid-late game scenario and Imo he'll do worse than other supports, because things that make him strong early game (high base damage, shackles on an enemy to secure a kill in lane, 1st skill) actually lose their effectiveness the longer the game goes. Who cares if he hits like a truck at min 1, to stun an enemy he has to stand still, he's squishy and in mid-late game fights he's very easy to pick off. Plus there are much better ulties to use in fights, his is good only for taking towers and not even that much late game, when the enemies will destroy wards with relative ease. I'd take Disruptor's aghs ulti anyday tbh, or a double WW's ulti in the late game.
you’re just wrong dude aghs rush/aghs blink ss is common as dirt and if you get the third rosh he WILL have refresher for a hg fight
and no, refresher disruptor / ww is a million fucking times worse than double snakes rofl, what are you smoking
disruptor wont even buy aghs because aghs ss ult is insane and aghs disruptor is a lategame item, only a shit player would rush dis aghs
Of course no one rushes aghs on Disruptor, but I was referring to the situation you mentioned before. If a support manages to get to lvl 25 and get roshfresher it usually means he had time to farm all his items, luxury ones included. So aghs on Disruptor and double ulti with roshfresher = fuck carries' bkbs and supports' euls, they'd be 100% dead.
If we talk about an average mid-late game scenario for a support (no lvl 25 yet, no roshfresher and shit) I still think other supports would be more effective overall. Like I said, especially 'cause in that bracket people need to be constantly healed since they're often out of position or too aggressive, so I'd pick a support that naturally wants to build mek/greaves, has spells that heal and a good ulti to use in fights. Prolly I don't realize what kind of big deal aghs Shaman is, but that's my opinion atm
have u ever ACTUALlly played against ss with refresher and aghs because theres literally no way to not lose ur rax, who fucking cares about double lion stun or whatever meme bullshit ur talking about when everyone has bkbs and you can't stand in a fight as a support without dying instantly
ss literally blink double ults and you either kill the wards and die to his team, fight his team and die to wards, or run away and forfeit the game, those are your only options
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I feel in my bracket, supports should be able to:
At the very least
Zone an offlaner
Gank
Disable
Secure kills with a carry inbthe midgame
Bonuses are
Surviveable
Decent damage
Push bu themselves
Immediately what comes to my mind is shadow shaman, i always feel comfortable using him because I always feel usedull. and he can take objectives by himself given the chance and push waves if carries (like they often do) refuse to.
Also pudge, a little more item depenent and less of a threat to towers.
What about you guys? Which supports should I be picking up this patch?